2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Week Deals
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
71 members (bubbaXzone, anotherscott, Bostonmoores, Ajax69, An Old Square, 20 invisible), 1,083 guests, and 576 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
And I think if one has an excellent technician it can improve any brand piano.
Besides your piano is probably a very nice instrument Jack.
Most people here have pianos which could never sound as good as a Bechstein
Concert grand.
I really enjoyed the tone of this Samick grand though, even though not a concert
piano.


https://youtu.be/ajkxDUWy50E

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Jack Moody, The Renner action is less likely to suffer from the problems with the action centers that Samick made actions usually do over time. The precision of the Samick parts is very good, it is the way the parts are pinned together that produces problems.

Renner actions do have an issue with the center pins working their way out of the flanges and sometimes they can get unusual sluggishness.

I find the "Parts Brand Wars" various makers indulge in absurd. What does a piano buyer know about Renner actions or Abel hammers?

I hope I answered your question well enough to avoid ruining your love for pianos.

LOL, it would take more than a helpful answer to make me hate pianos.

I think you are making fun of me, but I found your posts critical, while insightful. I didnt think you were being negative. You gave specific reason to justify your thoughts. You seem more knowledgeable than me on the matter so I appreciate the opportunity to learn.




Thanks

Last edited by Jack Moody; 04/11/20 11:40 PM.
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
I find the "Parts Brand Wars" various makers indulge in absurd.

I've always found that to be rather odd. I often come across nonsense like "I prefer THE Renner action."

How is the name of the supplier of the manufacturer's action parts even remotely relevant?

I'm not sure that I understand. The Samick World was made in a different factory, to higher specs. It had a better sound board, action and some other things. Many, including Larry Fine, said it was a much better instrument. I dont know anything about Larry Fine, but people on here seem to love him.

Would you rather have a Korean Samick action or a Renner action made in Germany?

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,442
L
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,442
Originally Posted by Jack Moody
[quote=Ed McMorrow, RPT]



I think you are making fun of me, but I found your posts critical, while insightful. I didnt think you were being negative. You gave specific reason to justify your thoughts. You seem more knowledgeable than me on the matter so I appreciate the opportunity to learn.

Props for creating that sentence, a lot going on in there.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400

2006 August Förster 215
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,475
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,475
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
[...]
I really enjoyed the tone of this Samick grand though, even though not a concert
piano.

https://youtu.be/ajkxDUWy50E

I find the tone in the treble rather hard and strident. Odd, however, that Faust Harrison should state: "Enjoy it as your permanent home piano or trade it up to a more advanced upright or a fine baby grand."

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,676
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
[...]
I really enjoyed the tone of this Samick grand though, even though not a concert
piano.

https://youtu.be/ajkxDUWy50E

I find the tone in the treble rather hard and strident. Odd, however, that Faust Harrison should state: "Enjoy it as your permanent home piano or trade it up to a more advanced upright or a fine baby grand."

Regards,
Yes but we should not be too snobish surely ?
For the price it sounded very good !

It is surely good too find a sense of balance rather than just compairing concert grands?
(of huge differences in price and prestige )
The only number of concert grands I have ever played are two .(both Steinways ,many years ago )
I have played one 7 ft Sauter, and that is it with large grands no others.

A few month ago I tried a new Steinways M in the dealer .,and the way the bass strings
rattled just made me wonder..........

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,580
G
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,580
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Originally Posted by Jack Moody
I've seen plenty of musicians with "more instrument" than ability. If I had to choose, I'd take ability.

I've posted many times over the years that I'd rather hear a good pianist on a "bad" piano than a bad pianist on a good one. thumb

I can manage the "good piano" bit, sorry for the rest of it. smile

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by Learux
Originally Posted by Jack Moody
[quote=Ed McMorrow, RPT]



I think you are making fun of me, but I found your posts critical, while insightful. I didnt think you were being negative. You gave specific reason to justify your thoughts. You seem more knowledgeable than me on the matter so I appreciate the opportunity to learn.

Props for creating that sentence, a lot going on in there.

Props to you for being 6'4.

There is a lot going on everywhere, bro. We're living in wild times!

Last edited by Jack Moody; 04/12/20 08:03 AM.
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,042
E
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,042
Jack Moody, I most surely do not intend to make fun of you. I only wish you well. Peace.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,102

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
7000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,102
It's often easy to read things between the lines that aren't there. And there's a smidge more jocularity than usual lately.


How to Upload Pictures
“If it sounds good, it IS good.” ― Duke Ellington!



Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,157
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,157
We have a 7' Samick on the floor (under their Schumann label,) and after a day's tweaking it is a nice sounding and playing instrument. Not quite in the same league as Kawai and Yamaha at 7',but close.


Piano Industry Consultant

Contributing Editor & Consultant - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,291
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 31,291
I think the title of the thread is misleading. Buying a piano usually involves compromises unless one has 100K to spend. Size and quality are two of the possible trade offs and each person has to decide for themselves. One cannot say which is more important.

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,955
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,955
Originally Posted by Jack Moody
Would you rather have a Korean Samick action or a Renner action made in Germany?

I'd rather have a good action. How is it relevant where the parts came from? If you had Renner shanks, and Tokiwa wippens, with Samick rails and action brackets, would that be somehow inferior?

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Jack Moody
Would you rather have a Korean Samick action or a Renner action made in Germany?

I'd rather have a good action. How is it relevant where the parts came from? If you had Renner shanks, and Tokiwa wippens, with Samick rails and action brackets, would that be somehow inferior?

Germans are known for precision.

I would guess that a Renner action made in Germany would be more sought after than a Korean made Samick action, but maybe I'm wrong.

I dont know much about it.

Samick was making a higher end piano. They sent specs to Germany and had Renner make the action, from my understanding. I'm guessing either they thought it was better or they thought the specs would help it sell. Most agreed that the World was a superior piano, including Larry Fine (for whatever that means). Many specifically mention that the action is superior. People didnt want to pay for a higher end Samick.

I pretty much just repeated my last post, because I'm literally saying that I dont know much about it. You are acting like you know about it, but for some reason you are asking me questions.

Are you saying that Koreans generally build an action as good as Germans? Half of these people are saying that every Samick is junk.

I might also mention that the World pianos are about 20 years old now, so Korean quality could have improved in that time.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,894
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,894
Pianos basically aren’t assembled in Korea anymore. The major makers own factories in China and Indonesia where most of the product is made.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,894
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,894
In my observations, Renner parts tend to be used in a few ways, for different performance and marketing reasons:

1. Lowest cost makers who spec a Renner part in actions that are mostly made with other parts, to be able to use the name in their marketing.
2. Low-cost pianos that offer Renner actions as a step-up option, who advertise its presence, but are otherwise built and factory prepared as low-cost pianos (i.e. badly).
3. Mid level makers who assemble Renner actions in-house, to save money but use a proven/name brand part.
4. Better makers who use complete Renner actions made for them, and spend a good deal of time regulating the actions at the factory.
5. Top-shelf makers who take #4 to the next level by going so far as to repin/rework the parts so they perform to the nth degree, within even tighter tolerances. They generally don’t make a lot of noise about who made their actions in their marketing.

With honorable mention to:

0. The very lowest-cost makers who stamp their hammers in a rather distinctive font with “Germany felt” in an attempt for you to associate the part with one of the better known brand names.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
We have a 7' Samick on the floor (under their Schumann label,) and after a day's tweaking it is a nice sounding and playing instrument. Not quite in the same league as Kawai and Yamaha at 7',but close.


So, here is an on topic question.

How would that 7' Samick compare to a 5'X Yamaha or Kawai?

Price?
Feel?
Sound?
General quality?
Durability?

Also, how much would the tweaking add to the cost?

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,894
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,894
Which Yamaha? The cheapest-possible GB, the lower priced GC, the mainline CX, the high-spec SX, or the premium CF?
Which Kawai? The lower priced GL, the mainline GX, or the premium Shigeru?
Which size, specifically? New or 20 years old (because the model lineups were different)?

Are we comparing against a 20 year old used 7’ piano? Because a generation of use pretty much makes this into an impossible comparison, especially without having specific instruments in front of us to evaluate.

I tend to compare pianos based on either size or price. That’s pretty much it, since people tend to be limited by what will fit in their space, and their budget.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
J
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Which Yamaha? The cheapest-possible GB, the lower priced GC, the mainline CX, the high-spec SX, or the premium CF?
Which Kawai? The lower priced GL, the mainline GX, or the premium Shigeru?
Which size, specifically? New or 20 years old (because the model lineups were different)?

Are we comparing against a 20 year old used 7’ piano? Because a generation of use pretty much makes this into an impossible comparison, especially without having specific instruments in front of us to evaluate.

I tend to compare pianos based on either size or price. That’s pretty much it, since people tend to be limited by what will fit in their space, and their budget.

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I thought he was asking if you might get better sound from a 7' Samick than a smaller Yamaha, for the same price or less.

I dont know piano prices/models well. I wouldn't have thought they would offer premium models in 5' lengths and I would think they cost $100,000 or so. I dont know what a 7' Samick sells for, but I'm thinking it's a whole lot less.

I've played a smaller Kawai at church. I dont know the vintage or model. I prefer my 6'2 Samick World by a lot, but that doesn't mean much.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,878
It all depends on what you like. If I loved the sound of a C1X, I should indeed love the sound on a C6X. If I don’t really care for the Samick sound or feel in the first place, why would I want 7 long feet of it? Yamaha only makes the standard and premium models 7 feet or longer. I think with bigger grands the target audience is typically much more discriminating. I don’t know if length improves a lower priced piano’s appeal.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
The reason I’m old and wise is because God protected me when I was young and stupid.
[Linked Image]
Page 3 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Pianos - Organs - & Keyboards, Oh My!
My first professionally recorded piece
---------------------
Visit Maine, Meet Mr. Piano World
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Cateen plays I Got Rhythm
by pianoloverus - 12/02/21 04:38 PM
Cateen plays I Got Rhythm
by pianoloverus - 12/02/21 03:44 PM
My tech knows I am OCD
by RobAC - 12/02/21 02:09 PM
A little OT - a Thanksgiving Day piano float
by Rich Galassini - 12/02/21 01:50 PM
Preventing noise transmission
by happyhacker - 12/02/21 01:35 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics210,354
Posts3,150,258
Members103,492
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5