2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
76 members (Beemer, BadDude, Alex C, Boboulus, Chernobieff Piano, Beowulf, 17 invisible), 491 guests, and 430 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Practicing triplets in rhythms
#2965244 04/09/20 10:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
I am working on Chopin Nocturne in f minor, opus 55 no 1. I am having my lessons by Zoom and then my teacher emails me his notes. This piece has a lot of triplets. He said to practice them staccato and in rhythms. I am not sure how to practice triplets in rhythms. I have often done them in 16th notes but they don’t seem to fit triplets. Does anyone have any idea how to do this? Thanks.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965256 04/09/20 11:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,142
P
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,142
I have played this Nocturne. If your teacher is suggesting you practice the triplets in rhythm, maybe he wants you to get them more even and feel the pulse. There are triplets throughout the piece in both hands. Is he referring to the coda which has the RH playing triplets throughout? (starting in Bar 79) Ask him if he means practicing RH alone, as the rhythm practice would be alternatively 16th - dotted 8th, and dotted 8th - 16th. Hard to coordinate with LH and do not see why you would practice it this way hands together. Practicing staccato usually is a way to make sure you are hitting all the notes confidently.

Bottom line - Ask for further clarification. Enjoy the piece!



Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965288 04/10/20 03:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,524
C
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,524
Quote
...
Bottom line - Ask for further clarification. Enjoy the piece!

+1.

I was going to write something speculative. But until you know what your teacher wants you to practice (and improve!), that's pointless.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965330 04/10/20 08:15 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
For the triplets just do
1. 16th, 16th, 8th or
2. 8th, 16th, 16th

Any occurrence of triplets in the piece can be practiced these ways. There is no problem coordinating with the non triplet playing hand as one poster suggested.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/10/20 08:20 AM.
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965337 04/10/20 08:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
Thank you all. Sorry I was not clearer. Yes he does mean the right hand alone from the Coda to the end.
Judy


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965341 04/10/20 08:55 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Originally Posted by zillybug
Thank you all. Sorry I was not clearer. Yes he does mean the right hand alone from the Coda to the end.Judy
You could also use it on the passages where the RH and LH play triplets together or any of the triplet passages in either hand if you wish.

Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965394 04/10/20 12:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
Thanks Pianoloverus,
I had used the staccatos in other parts but not the rhythms. For some reason I am finding doing the rhythms in triplets much harder than 16th note runs but that may just be that I am much more familiar with doing them for 16th notes.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965430 04/10/20 02:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,260
M
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,260
I've done triplets in rhythm, you just are swinging them long-short or short-long. You end up emphasizing different parts of the triplet which is really helpful.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965494 04/10/20 05:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
Morodiene
That is what I was first trying to do. What I was not sure about is do you do the long -short
and short-long through out all the triplets in a few measures of just in each triplet?
Thank you.
Judy


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965506 04/10/20 06:06 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
It's not long-short or short-long it's long-short-short or short-short-long.

Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965509 04/10/20 06:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
Pianoloverus
Yes if you are doing it by each triplet. I was wondering if Morodiene meant to do it going across triplets.
Thanks


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965513 04/10/20 06:45 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Originally Posted by zillybug
PianoloverusYes if you are doing it by each triplet. I was wondering if Morodiene meant to do it going across triplets. Thanks
That's possible but much harder and IMO much less useful and a much rarer way to practice triplets in rhythms. People would never practice 16th note passages in a short-long-short rhythm.They'd practice them in rhythms that used all four notes in each group of 16ths like l-s-s-l or l-s-l-s.

Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
pianoloverus #2965517 04/10/20 07:03 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,026
Silver Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,026
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by zillybug
PianoloverusYes if you are doing it by each triplet. I was wondering if Morodiene meant to do it going across triplets. Thanks
That's possible but much harder and IMO much less useful and a much rarer way to practice triplets in rhythms. People would never practice 16th note passages in a short-long-short rhythm.They'd practice them in rhythms that used all four notes in each group of 16ths like l-s-s-l or l-s-l-s.

Guess my instruction was the outlier re practicing four note rhythms: but I was taught also to practice them in rhythm patterns that extended through the next rhythm group . If there was l-s-s-l, the next group was start with s-s l-s with the pattern continuing across the 16 note unit


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965521 04/10/20 07:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,891
Z
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,891
Josh Wright's instruction is to take the string of notes, 16ths or triplets, as sequences starting in pairs: l-s and s-l; then in threes: l-s-s, s-l-s and s-s-l; then in fours: l-s-s-s, s-l-s-s, s-s-l-s and s-s-s-l; then in fives.

He reserved higher groups, sevens to fifteens in odd numbers only, for really difficult passages.


Richard
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965536 04/10/20 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
Thank you everyone. I have many different ways to try practicing them now and I will ask my teachers when I have my next lesson on Monday if he wanted them done a specific way.
Judy


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965537 04/10/20 08:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,142
P
1000 Post Club Member
Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,142
It’s best to practice using different types of rhythms and move the starting points so you are crossing over into the next group of 3, as Dogperson mentioned. I do not agree with the above poster that you should only practice the triplets in groups of 3. Both Josh Wright and Graham Fitch have videos on this.



Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965539 04/10/20 08:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 516
Thanks, I will watch the videos.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zrtf90 #2965556 04/10/20 09:49 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Originally Posted by zrtf90
Josh Wright's instruction is to take the string of notes, 16ths or triplets, as sequences starting in pairs: l-s and s-l; then in threes: l-s-s, s-l-s and s-s-l; then in fours: l-s-s-s, s-l-s-s, s-s-l-s and s-s-s-l; then in fives.

He reserved higher groups, sevens to fifteens in odd numbers only, for really difficult passages.
For what kinds of passages? I find it hard to believe he recommends this type of practice for a series of triplets like those in the nocturne in question, especially for an intermediate or advanced intermediate player. Do you have a link to the video you mention?

Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zillybug #2965611 04/11/20 06:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,891
Z
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,891
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by zrtf90
Josh Wright's instruction...
For what kinds of passages?
For continuous notes, 8ths, 16ths, triplets, anything where the notes are of the same value.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I find it hard to believe he recommends this type of practice for a series of triplets...
It's hard to believe how much you find hard to believe! The idea behind rhythms is to manage each pair of notes at tempo pausing on every second note, then taking three notes at a time, at tempo, and pausing on every third note, etc.

Josh counts 1-2, 1-2. He then starts on the second note and repeats the 1-2, 1-2. In threes he starts on the first note, then the second note, then the third note. Every note in every group of 2, 3, 4, etc, will take the 1 or the pause in one of the cycles. The value of the notes in question is immaterial as long as they're of the same value.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Do you have a link to the video you mention?
I find it hard to believe smile that you couldn't find the video yourself! In a fit of ingenuity I googled "Josh Wright rhythms" and found it immediately.

Here is one of them.


Richard
Re: Practicing triplets in rhythms
zrtf90 #2965718 04/11/20 11:56 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 27,240
Originally Posted by zrtf90
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by zrtf90
Josh Wright's instruction...
For what kinds of passages?
For continuous notes, 8ths, 16ths, triplets, anything where the notes are of the same value.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I find it hard to believe he recommends this type of practice for a series of triplets...
It's hard to believe how much you find hard to believe! The idea behind rhythms is to manage each pair of notes at tempo pausing on every second note, then taking three notes at a time, at tempo, and pausing on every third note, etc.

Josh counts 1-2, 1-2. He then starts on the second note and repeats the 1-2, 1-2. In threes he starts on the first note, then the second note, then the third note. Every note in every group of 2, 3, 4, etc, will take the 1 or the pause in one of the cycles. The value of the notes in question is immaterial as long as they're of the same value.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Do you have a link to the video you mention?
I find it hard to believe smile that you couldn't find the video yourself! In a fit of ingenuity I googled "Josh Wright rhythms" and found it immediately.

Here is one of them.
I think what Josh Wright calls rhythms many people, including me, would call chunking and consider to be different from what's often called practicing in rhythms. His approach is just practicing small sections of different lengths at full speed. His approach is also similar to practicing, say, a single measure at full speed one or many times and then the next measure and putting them together. Or practicing the first x notes of a fioritura passage at speed, then the first x+y notes, etc. I think most or at least many would not call this practicing in rhythms.

Certainly what he recommends except for his 2 unit and 3 unit rhythm seem extremely inappropriate for the OP who seems to be an intermediate or late intermediate pianist.

He's also talking about "playing in rhythms" for the sole purpose of getting a passage up to speed. If you search for PW threads on practicing in rhythms(one of which I started a long time ago) you'll see that people have a wide variety of thoughts about why and when they are useful that go far beyond what JW disucsses.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/11/20 12:02 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Roland FP-4 speaker problem
by JLouie - 05/29/20 11:50 AM
Lighting for Korg D1 keys?
by Doug Brock - 05/29/20 10:41 AM
The 21 levels of taking a bow
by pianoloverus - 05/29/20 09:59 AM
New OS for Roland Fantom
by slipperykeys - 05/29/20 09:59 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics199,261
Posts2,963,572
Members97,227
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4