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Re: Any idea's when a "MP12" may be release to us?
johnstaf #2965034 04/09/20 01:08 PM
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I don't disagree with you, in theory. What I'm saying is that there's more that goes into the "feel" of an action than just pivot length, the hammer movement, up and down weights, etc; the things we often talk about here that we can measure more easily. As Gene was saying, there are various frictions involved at different points of the system, for example. I think beyond just an initial up or down weight, there is a certain momentum the key will have based on how quickly you touch the key, etc. It's complicated, and an extremely good synthetic key folded design could address all of those aspects. More likely, they've addressed a couple that can easily be measured, such as pivot length and down weight, maybe even friction/resistance during key travel. But is that friction constant or does it change over the course of the keystrike and key return? There's only so much they can design for without the extra complexity adding more cost, more weight, decreased reliability, etc. Essentially companies are making a series of compromises to save space, weight, and cost. If the near-perfect folded design costs more to produce than Kawai's design, but saves weight and space, would they be able to profitably sell it in products at scale?

It just seems to me that the closer your design is mechanically to what you're trying to simulate, the easier it will be for that design to mimic all of the various little weights, inertial feel, frictions, etc. I think also a mechanical design that is more similar to the real thing will tend to stay more stable in maintaining all of those small differences over the long run than something that uses special grease or felt to mimic friction, etc.

I believe there is also a benefit in feel, but probably not in reliability, to using long wooden keysticks in terms of vibration transmission, weight, and maybe even other aspects.

Could an ideal folded action perfectly mimic all of those aspects? Sure, but if I were designing one the path I'd likely choose to take would be similar to Kawai's, if I was willing to take the size, weight, and cost penalties associated with it.

Re: Any idea's when a "MP12" may be release to us?
thedigitalabyss #2965167 04/09/20 05:34 PM
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It will take time for the Roland LX706 to be compared with an MP11, because not many people have it. I never tried the LX706, but according to what I read its folded action has nothing to envy to the other ones, which is good news to me.

Re: Any idea's when a "MP12" may be release to us?
pold #2965183 04/09/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pold
It will take time for the Roland LX706 to be compared with an MP11, because not many people have it. I never tried the LX706, but according to what I read its folded action has nothing to envy to the other ones, which is good news to me.

I tried the LX706 a couple of times when testing digital pianos and ended up with the MP11SE. I must have played the LX706 for over an hour all up while trying to decide.

I was happy with the action, but disappointed by the sound of the LX706 and liked the MP11SE better. But in the end after purchase I was not satisfied with the sound of that either. I just use the MP11SE as a controller now and use two different VSTs.

Re: Any idea's when a "MP12" may be release to us?
KevinM #2965236 04/09/20 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by pold
It will take time for the Roland LX706 to be compared with an MP11, because not many people have it. I never tried the LX706, but according to what I read its folded action has nothing to envy to the other ones, which is good news to me.

I tried the LX706 a couple of times when testing digital pianos and ended up with the MP11SE. I must have played the LX706 for over an hour all up while trying to decide.

I was happy with the action, but disappointed by the sound of the LX706 and liked the MP11SE better. But in the end after purchase I was not satisfied with the sound of that either. I just use the MP11SE as a controller now and use two different VSTs.

ah yes, regarding internal sound quality I gave up years ago, I don't like any of them, including the Novus 10. I can accept the internal sound of organ, electric piano or harpsichord, but for grand piano there is no point, you need a vst and a nice computer.

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