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Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Macy #2963795 04/05/20 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Macy
[quote=KevinM]
I only went down the VST route after feeling I needed something better than the internal sounds of the MP11SE, convenience is important to me, otherwise I would also have considered Vintage D.
[/quote
What inconvenience with the Vintage D? I think it's one of the easiest VST interfaces to use.


There has been a large number of reports of issues with its pedalling.

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2963802 04/05/20 05:26 AM
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I'm not much of a VST guy but decided to try one 7 to 8 years ago. I bought Vintage D cause it seemed to be the best rated cheapest software. I still own it, although I hardly ever use it. I gigged with it and only stopped after getting tired of the set-up time. For a while, I was still reading reviews that Vintage D was holding its own but it doesn't have half-peddling and today there are so many choices.


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Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
36251 #2963806 04/05/20 05:46 AM
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What about this?
Originally Posted by 36251
I was still reading reviews that Vintage D was holding its own but it doesn't have half-peddling and today there are so many choices.

[Linked Image]

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2963807 04/05/20 05:49 AM
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Native Noire has some beautiful sounds and some creative features !!

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
MacMacMac #2963828 04/05/20 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
What about this?
Originally Posted by 36251
I was still reading reviews that Vintage D was holding its own but it doesn't have half-peddling and today there are so many choices.

[Linked Image]


Great. Honestly, I haven't used it in many years and I thought I read here Vintage D doesn't have half-pedaling. If it's not that, maybe someone can remind me what the negatives cause I do like the samples very much. It's just the preparation of my computer, turning off many of its auto-tasks that cause VST to have too much latancy.


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Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2963830 04/05/20 09:05 AM
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My first and only VST is Pianoteq 6 (except for a cracked version of "The Grand" in the 90's).I choose Pianoteq because I'm fascinated by the technology behind it and like how lightweight it is on the computer. The possibility to try it before and the academic discount was also factors that led to my decision to purchase it. I pretty much only use the Steinway B and I really like it. It has stellar playability and is a solid alternative/complement to the built in sound on my Yamaha N1. My experience is however that Pianoteq is really dependent on getting the velocity curve right, otherwise it can feel artificial. But once you nail the curve it's really great. I might get a sample based VST someday to complement Pianoteq and leaning towards the VSL concert D-274 which seems like a fine piano.

Last edited by johanibraaten; 04/05/20 09:14 AM.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
36251 #2964048 04/06/20 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 36251
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
What about this?
Originally Posted by 36251
I was still reading reviews that Vintage D was holding its own but it doesn't have half-peddling and today there are so many choices.

[Linked Image]


Great. Honestly, I haven't used it in many years and I thought I read here Vintage D doesn't have half-pedaling. If it's not that, maybe someone can remind me what the negatives cause I do like the samples very much. It's just the preparation of my computer, turning off many of its auto-tasks that cause VST to have too much latancy.


Every Piano VST I've tried has a flaw or two, or a dozen. I'd never argue with someone who dislikes a particular VST because it has a flaw that bothers them, even if it barely mattered to me. We can identify, measure, and characterize flaws objectively with great precision according to physics, but we all judge what we like or don't by our own subjective weighting of a multitude of factors.

That said, the Vintage D pedaling issue is a non-factor for me. It has re-pedaling and half-pedaling (continuous pedaling), but it ignores a half-pedal in one situation. That's as the pedal is RELEASED if you had previously applied the pedal AFTER a key(s) is down. In that case the note(s) simply fade away according to the adjustable release time. If you had applied the Pedal before the key(s) is down, then it recognizes a half pedal when the pedal is released.

The Galaxy Vintage D piano was released in March 2010. As far as I know, the first mention of this horrific problem was here in November 2016, That's right, it's a problem so bad no one noticed, or at least spoke up about it, for nearly 7 years.

I've been playing for over 40 years (I don't claim to be that good) and I didn't notice it before it was mentioned here, and I don't notice it now in my playing genres. But as I said above, everyone subjectively weighs factors according to what matters to them.

The Vintage D remains my favorite piano. It's the one I play day to day, and the one I always go back to after experimenting with something else. I think its sample set is a fantastic piece of work. It's also the one piano I can "voice" over a little range without it becoming artificial, which is nice bonus. It's my one VST that I don't complain about any flaws.


Macy

CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Macy #2964053 04/06/20 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Macy
The Vintage D remains my favorite piano. It's the one I play day to day, and the one I always go back to after experimenting with something else. I think its sample set is a fantastic piece of work. It's also the one piano I can "voice" over a little range without it becoming artificial, which is nice bonus. It's my one VST that I don't complain about any flaws.

+1
My first VST was the free trial version of Pianoteq, but I decided against buying Pianoteq because the sounds did not meet my expectations. I rather bought Galaxy Vintage D and found it that good that I still stick to it and never tried any other VST. From the feedback I got from people who had listened to my recordings, they all had the impression they were studio recordings of an expensive acoustic grand, not necessarily a Steinway, but at least a Bösendorfer or Blüthner. Yes, the pedal behaves in a strange manner on rare occasions - I could not figure out what the problem really was until I read about it here on PW.

Originally Posted by 36251
It's just the preparation of my computer, turning off many of its auto-tasks that cause VST to have too much latancy.
I plugged in Asio4all into the Kontakt Player and the latency problem was gone.

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964056 04/06/20 04:26 AM
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Thanks Macy for that feedback on Galaxy Vintage D. Seems like I need to add it to my possibles, currently the only other being Ravenscroft 275.

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Macy #2964058 04/06/20 04:30 AM
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This is just how I feel about the Vintage D.
Originally Posted by Macy
The Vintage D remains my favorite piano. It's the one I play day to day, and the one I always go back to after experimenting with something else. I think its sample set is a fantastic piece of work. It's also the one piano I can "voice" over a little range without it becoming artificial, which is nice bonus. It's my one VST that I don't complain about any flaws.

It's better than anything else I've tried. It sounds like a proper Steinway. No artifacts. Nothing fake. It's just a piano with no artificial additives.

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964065 04/06/20 05:57 AM
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Vintage D has awful repedaling and half-pedaling. It’s a shame really since it has wonderful sound. But is pretty much useless for my needs and repertoire ☹️


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964088 04/06/20 09:00 AM
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Wow i am suddenly interested in the Galaxy Vintage D. I have the Embertone Walker 1955 and the CinePiano ...both Steinways. How does the Vintage D sound by comparison ? I don’t care about pedal behavior that much.... and VSL concert D sounds to modern and cold for my taste. Do you prefer it over those Steinways i mentioned purely from a sound perspective ?

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
pianistje #2964094 04/06/20 09:18 AM
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Yeah, don't over-estimate the ills of Vintage D's pedaling. I've had no problems with it.
Originally Posted by pianistje
I don’t care about pedal behavior that much

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
MacMacMac #2964099 04/06/20 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yeah, don't over-estimate the ills of Vintage D's pedaling. I've had no problems with it.
Originally Posted by pianistje
I don’t care about pedal behavior that much


Interesting that some players are really frustrated by certain pedal behavior while others are perfectly fine with it.

But your and Macy’s glowing comments make me curious...i know that i wanted a Steinway a couple of years ago and the last contenders were the Hammersmith and Galaxy. There was a comparison between the two on youtube and i liked the Hammersmith better. But i have never clicked remotely with the Hammersmith after purchase. The Embertone is what i hoped the Hammersmith would have been. Since then i know i simply cannot judge a vst on those criteria.

But the Galaxy was off my radar since then...

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964103 04/06/20 09:29 AM
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I think it will be worth giving Vintage D a go, but I'll wait until it is on special.

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964106 04/06/20 09:37 AM
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Vintage D sounds warm and soft, very velvety sound, typical Steinway in the best sense. I used to like it while I was playing jazz. When I switched more to Chopin I started taking care of precise pedal control, with continuous half-pedaling throughout measures, for producing the exact blend between notes and harmonies I want. And it fails miserably.


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Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964155 04/06/20 12:48 PM
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There was a very basic piano included with FL Studio 8, which was my first DAW.
Last July, I bought Miroslav Philharmonik 2 and I use the 1.4 GB concert piano, probably a Steinway.
There is a small problem with the sample set however; two keys have intrusive hammer noise, which is really annoying in quieter passages.

Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
CyberGene #2964214 04/06/20 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Vintage D sounds warm and soft, very velvety sound, typical Steinway in the best sense. I used to like it while I was playing jazz. When I switched more to Chopin I started taking care of precise pedal control, with continuous half-pedaling throughout measures, for producing the exact blend between notes and harmonies I want. And it fails miserably.


CyberGene, you are of course the person I was referring to that first posted about the pedaling issues in November 2016, SEVEN years after the product was introduced. And as I said earlier, I fully understand that makes it unacceptable for you and undoubtable some others. I'd never argue with anyone's choices, so I don't mean to be doing that here. But it took 7 years for anyone to articulate or bring up the pedaling problem. (It usually takes about 7 hours for people to start picking apart new piano's flaws after their introduction.)

So I'd just say its pedaling issue probably doesn't affect a lot of people the way it does you. But, as demonstrated by the comments earlier in this thread, it's apparently now acquired a reputation as something others don't want to try a result of your absolutely, correctly, reported observations about its pedaling behavior. I think that's unfortunate if those pedaling behaviors, which again existed essentially unrecognized for 7 years before you detailed them, are now keeping people from trying out that piano, which I think is the most authentic and best sounding Steinway VST I've experienced (and I believe has no other significant playability flaws).

BTW, I'm not immune to the effects of pedaling flaws or funny behavior. Your work on mitigating the Garritan CFX pedaling issue made a huge difference to me when playing that piano, so I can't thank you enough for that. I still play the CFX piano fairly often, although I find it not as nearly authentic sounding or pleasing to play as the Vintage D. It's remarkable to me that Garritan has NOT incorporated your excellent pedaling changes in the CFX, and since they haven't that means most of its users are playing it with a pedaling issue I find very disruptive and personally drove me away from that piano initially even though I never even recognized the Vintage D pedaling problem before you articulated it. I think that just illustrates how subjective and personal are reactions can be to these type of behaviors.


Macy

CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964220 04/06/20 05:28 PM
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Macy, thanks. I’ve come to realize that for some reason I may leave the impression of probably being more knowledgeable than I really am. Or at least that may be what less experienced readers can perceive, and so the weight of my words may cause effects that I have not intended, although these words are simply the impressions of some very addicted and picky guy on the Internet who tends to over concentrate on small details. I’ve been already criticized about my other thread concerning the escapement and I’ve seen some people already asking whether they should purchase digital pianos if they lack escapement. I’ve been probably too harsh to Pianoteq too.

Maybe I should be more careful with my words about products and features. I’ve become accustomed to participating in this forum where we’re seemingly a small community of familiar people and so my comments have been in the context of the everyday discussions where my opinion is just an opinion and people know me well including my tendency to state some things with too strong effect and with overconfidence. I know that myself. What I’ve missed is the fact many people on the Internet are passively reading these forums and we don’t know how many they are and naturally they can stumble upon my posts and, seeing I’m a prolific poster with a tone that’s overconfident, draw some general conclusions that are way too off.

In other words, point taken smile And thanks for being nice saying that. I tend to not listen to people who are less diplomatic in saying what you said which is why I rarely listen to them. But I thought a lot about what you said and I found truth in it. Thanks 🤝

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/06/20 05:35 PM.

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Re: Piano VSTs - how did you choose your first?
Bruce In Philly #2964222 04/06/20 05:34 PM
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To the OP question I chose Pianoteq that ultimately got me in a heated debate with some guy named Cybergene and summarily temporarily banned. Good times! CGs a good guy though😁


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Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
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