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Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
#2964151 04/06/20 11:38 AM
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Hi there!

While I was searching for a used electric piano I came across Yamaha Clavinova CLP-470 (1000€) and KAWAI EGP 10 hybrid piano (1700€). I've read a lot of good things about the CLP-470 but there is only a few information about EGP 10. Did someone by any chance played or heard the Kawai EGP 10? I've read that the model was launched in 1994 even though the seller said he bought it brand new in year 2004/2005 for 7500€. What do you think it is better choice? If I am thinking out loud I guess the materials of EGP 10 are much more superior and also the hybrid mechanism must give very realistic feeling like playing the grand piano. But I suppose when it comes to sound, CLP-470 gives better performance since the model was launched in 2012.

What are your oppinion?

Kind regards,
Klemen

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Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964162 04/06/20 12:07 PM
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Judge the sound by the sound, not by the year. And judge a piano by trying it for yourself.

As for the EGP10 ... I've never heard of that one. Pianos often have a plate or sticker with the make, model, serial, and date of manufacture. Do you know when this one was made?

I found this one for sale in Germany: https://reverb.com/item/18587113-kawai-egp-10-baby-grand-black-incl-case

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964164 04/06/20 12:13 PM
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Some info on this site: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1993077/kawai-egp-10-hybrid-model.html

Kawai UK has some official info: https://www.kawai.co.uk/products/archive/egp10/

Kawai Germany too, if you prefer it in Deutsch for some reason: https://www.kawai.de/products/archive/egp10/

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964203 04/06/20 03:13 PM
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If it is in good working order the hybrid could be awesome couple with a good VST - seems to be a real action which is pretty awesome.

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964219 04/06/20 04:24 PM
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The EGP-10 is from 2003. Probably it's the first hybrid DP Kawai produced in its history. It has the very first iteration of the Harmonic Imaging piano engine which uses a very old piano sound library.

It's playable, it has good dynamics and it sounds decently in the upper register and the lowest, but IMHO its timbre sounds very fake in the middle of the keyboard, where usually you play more. I know it, because on my CN37 I can select that old piano sound too (it's called Standard Grand), so I know all its defects. And probably, that same old piano library sounds better on my CN37 because I can add some resonance effects that in 2003 were not available.

Personally I would be against buying such an old relic from the past. If you are really sure it's in very good conditions (well, after 17 years I have some doubts) you could use it as a MIDI controller, considering that the action should be the same of a real grand. But I think 1700€ is too much.

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964245 04/06/20 06:32 PM
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Why didn’t they use this cabinet for the NV10? It looks quite nice.

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964251 04/06/20 06:50 PM
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It does look nice. It's probably more expensive, though.

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
magicpiano #2964397 04/07/20 11:10 AM
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Thank you for your answer!
I am not much into the digital pianos so now I am wondering if there is an option to load a new piano sound samples on it? You mentioned MIDI controler... I guess this is a software you upload it on piano so you can get better sound? User Morten Olsson mentioned VST. Is VST something like MIDI controler? I am sorry but I am a total newbie when it comes to topic.

The piano I was looking for can be found here: https://www.bolha.com/klaviature/elektricni-hibridni-klavir-kawai-egp-10-oglas-3180372

It seems like piano is in a good shape and was played for 6 years.

Kind regards,
Klemen

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964406 04/07/20 11:54 AM
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MIDI is a “language” used for communicating between digital musical instruments. This would enable you to transmit information about which keys are hit and how hard from the piano to another sound generator - this could be a pc running a software piano.
If you just want to play forget about midi, vsts etc and get an instrument with onboard sound that you like.
I have no idea how the hybrid Kawai you linked to sounds - but the action is probably better than most other digitals you are likely to play.
Must it be a digital by the way ? Used acoustics can be had cheap and if you pick the right one then in my - admittedly limited - experience they are more interesting instruments.

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964410 04/07/20 12:15 PM
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@Klemens89:
A VST is a software plugin that generates sounds. It needs a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) software (examples of DAWs: Reaper, Ableton, Cubase, etc.).

You cannot load samples on that piano. But you can connect it to a PC (via MIDI connection) so that the piano will transmit data of the keys (and pedals) you press. Then the PC receives these data and will generate a piano sound (by using the above VST). Considering that Digital Piano has a LINE-IN, you could re-route the audio output of the PC to the input of the DP, so that you will hear the piano sounds (generated by the PC) directly from the internal speakers of the DP. Or you can just use some headphones (or external speakers) connected to the PC.

In other words, to hear a decent piano sound from that old digital piano, you'll need a good PC + a DAW + a good piano VST. In this case, whenever you want to play the piano you'll need to do the following:

1) Turn on the Digital Piano.
2) Turn on the PC.
3) Load a DAW software.
4) Load a piano VST.
5) Play.

Many good piano libraries comes with a software that makes the library work in a standalone mode too (no need to have a DAW), so the above points (3) and (4) can become just one. You'll need the DAW if you want to record your playing and mix it with other audio sources, or if you want to add effects.

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964430 04/07/20 01:13 PM
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The PC+VST can also be replaced by a more or less expensive box of elecronics i.e. a "piano module".

I think currently there are two reasonably good options: the "V3 Sound Grand Piano XXL" and "Dexibell VIVO SX-7".

But of course you haven't yet even heard the Kawai and decided to hate the sound.

The timbre is one thing, the realism is another one. Different people have different expectations for digital pianos.

And liking the sound is one thing and learning being affected by the sound is another one. It could be a problem for learning e.g. if
- There are no resonances of any kind and you learn to be too careless with the sustain pedal because of that.
- The sustain is unnaturally short and you learn to be too careless with the sustain pedal because of that.

Then your playing will sound muddy on an acoustic piano.

But of course all this depends on your current skill level, expectations and goals.

Is there actually a typo here? 😁

[Linked Image]

Quote
"Piano humerique"


It's "piano numérique" in French and "humerique" probably means nothing.

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964437 04/07/20 01:57 PM
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That a funny typo, eh?

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964443 04/07/20 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Klemens89
Thank you for your answer!
I am not much into the digital pianos so now I am wondering if there is an option to load a new piano sound samples on it? You mentioned MIDI controler... I guess this is a software you upload it on piano so you can get better sound? User Morten Olsson mentioned VST. Is VST something like MIDI controler? I am sorry but I am a total newbie when it comes to topic.

The piano I was looking for can be found here: https://www.bolha.com/klaviature/elektricni-hibridni-klavir-kawai-egp-10-oglas-3180372

It seems like piano is in a good shape and was played for 6 years.

Kind regards,
Klemen


None of the pro or top model stage pianos and DPs load samples. Can you load samples on top of the line Yamaha/Kawai etc Digital Pianos or Stage Pianos? If not, it's very unlikely.

Only Nord does it (which you pay the premium for it but Nord is not even good at everything).

Sampler keyboards (CP-88 for example) are not truly Stage Pianos. They are synthesizers! Just like S90XS which was advertised as a synth and not as a Stage Piano. Stage Piano should have a specific purpose. It must have top-notch/detailed voices required on the stage, like Pianos, E-Pianos, Organs, Rhodes, and so on.

Get a synthesizer instead. With the money you're spending you can buy a MODX8.

Last edited by Abdol; 04/07/20 02:18 PM.

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Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
MacMacMac #2964444 04/07/20 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
The PC+VST can also be replaced by a more or less expensive box of elecronics i.e. a "piano module".

I think currently there are two reasonably good options: the "V3 Sound Grand Piano XXL" and "Dexibell VIVO SX-7".
Yes, that's another possibility, and it's easier to setup compared to the PC+VST route. Of course good VSTs sound better than those modules.
Quote


But of course you haven't yet even heard the Kawai and decided to hate the sound.

The timbre is one thing, the realism is another one. Different people have different expectations for digital pianos.

And liking the sound is one thing and learning being affected by the sound is another one. It could be a problem for learning e.g. if
- There are no resonances of any kind and you learn to be too careless with the sustain pedal because of that.
- The sustain is unnaturally short and you learn to be too careless with the sustain pedal because of that.

Then your playing will sound muddy on an acoustic piano.

But of course all this depends on your current skill level, expectations and goals.
You are right, and the sound from that DP is not high-quality but it's very responsive and it has good dynamics. The length of the sustain is good enough. Of course, the sound timbre is clearly that of an old piano synth (i.e. you feel the lack of velocity layers), but if you just want to learn to play piano, without expecting a realistic sound, then it's usable.

Quote

Is there actually a typo here? 😁

[Linked Image]

Quote
"Piano humerique"


It's "piano numérique" in French and "humerique" probably means nothing.


Originally Posted by MacMacMac
That a funny typo, eh?
I would say it's an "humoristique" typo laugh .

Re: Kawai EGP 10 hybrid piano
Klemens89 #2964735 04/08/20 01:47 PM
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Thank you guys for all the answers. I guess I will wait for the government to loose the measures so I can get out od the house and try both pianos live.
Yes, only digital piano is an option so I want to get the best out of it. I had a PETROF BREEZE P173 grand but I had to sell it because of changing the apartment. Sucks, I know. I guess the touch will say it all. I was also very disappointed about the new electric pianos (Clavinova 6 series) and they sound very ''plastic'', so good older models are the only choice I suppose.


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