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Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
#2964005 04/05/20 09:32 PM
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This video might spark some conversation.


Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964022 04/05/20 11:35 PM
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I really don't know what to say about the whole left/right brain thing, I think I'll leave that to a neurologist.

The rest of the tips seem very interesting, and my guess is they are much more suited for experienced players who have already developed technique (i.e., a beginner player should probably not be using low volume practice regularly since it's important for them to understand the connection between the force needed on a keyboard to the right volume from an acoustic piano).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964023 04/05/20 11:37 PM
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Interestingly he was using the old Yamaha Grantouch for 10 years, which was also using a real grand piano action just like the AGs.

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964047 04/06/20 03:33 AM
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He says that listening with only the left ear will enhance left brain thinking. Well ... no. The left ear is connected to the right brain.

On this Gombessa said "I think I'll leave that to a neurologist." Frederic Chiu should do likewise.

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964072 04/06/20 06:21 AM
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I disagree on the volume thing. You have to play at adequate volume to develop sensitivity in your fingers. If the volume is too low, you will tend to press the keys with more force than what usually is needed, and that will make you develop bad habits and you will not be able to play pianissimo passages consistently. IMHO that's very bad for a classical pianist. No dynamics => no expression => flat sound.

P.S.: our DP keyboards are heavy enough to make our muscles develop without using tricks. Many of them are even too heavy, I would say...

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964139 04/06/20 12:13 PM
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This is all pseudo-Lang-Lang mumbo jumbo!

Listen to people like Barenboim: “a forte in relation to what?”

Incidentally, a ‘pianissimo’ is by definition a redundancy; akin to whispering a graduation speech to thousands of people.

The fun and joy of music can only be encountered through true analysis. So it is by this method that the truth is revealed.

Too much emphasis is given to dynamics and not enough to phrasing. Dynamics (pianissimo to fortissimo) are simply a means to an end; whereas, phrasing is the cadence containing the hidden message intended by the composer. If you take this approach, you will truly be able to have posthumous conversations with the likes of Bach and Beethoven. Trust me, Beethoven could not care less about your ‘perfect’ pianissimo, but he would turn on his grave if you ignored the message beautifully crafted within the phrasing.


‘F brute strength; it’s all about deciphering the process within the process, for this is the path that leads to truth’, by Bach.

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964146 04/06/20 12:28 PM
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There are definitely advantages to having access to a digital piano especially when you are learning a new piece, but when you are trying to put it all together and polish off a piece access to an acoustic is desirable unless you plan only to play on your digital piano. It's a good tool as this fine pianist is explaining but it's not a replacement. I use my VPC-1 every other day much as he's doing, but mostly just learn the notes and finger positioning through repetition. But it does take me a couple of hours on my acoustic to get my fingers fully retrained to the touch of an acoustic.

Last edited by Jethro; 04/06/20 12:33 PM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

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Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
Jethro #2964195 04/06/20 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jethro
There are definitely advantages to having access to a digital piano especially when you are learning a new piece, but when you are trying to put it all together and polish off a piece access to an acoustic is desirable unless you plan only to play on your digital piano. It's a good tool as this fine pianist is explaining but it's not a replacement. I use my VPC-1 every other day much as he's doing, but mostly just learn the notes and finger positioning through repetition. But it does take me a couple of hours on my acoustic to get my fingers fully retrained to the touch of an acoustic.

Two hours to fully retrain? I find this very odd as you presumably play on both of these constantly.


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Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
Pete14 #2964197 04/06/20 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
This is all pseudo-Lang-Lang mumbo jumbo!

Listen to people like Barenboim: “a forte in relation to what?”

Incidentally, a ‘pianissimo’ is by definition a redundancy; akin to whispering a graduation speech to thousands of people.
A redundancy is something that is (not always unnecessarily) repeated... So, what do you mean when you say a pianissimo is a redundancy by definition?
Quote

The fun and joy of music can only be encountered through true analysis. So it is by this method that the truth is revealed.

Too much emphasis is given to dynamics and not enough to phrasing. Dynamics (pianissimo to fortissimo) are simply a means to an end; whereas, phrasing is the cadence containing the hidden message intended by the composer. If you take this approach, you will truly be able to have posthumous conversations with the likes of Bach and Beethoven. Trust me, Beethoven could not care less about your ‘perfect’ pianissimo, but he would turn on his grave if you ignored the message beautifully crafted within the phrasing.


‘F brute strength; it’s all about deciphering the process within the process, for this is the path that leads to truth’, by Bach.

Dynamics are a (very important) subset of phrasing techniques for the piano. So, without dynamics, you have one less dimension to express yourself or to try to convey in musical shape the original message of the composer (if he/she wrote the piece for the piano, of course).

Bach composed mainly for organ and harpsichord, so he is not much involved in the matter of dynamics (meant as volume&timbral variations based on the touch).

IMHO Beethoven would kick your a** if you played on a piano one of its great piano compositions with absolutely no dynamics, trust me. laugh

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964202 04/06/20 04:12 PM
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grin

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
Colin Miles #2964212 04/06/20 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by Jethro
There are definitely advantages to having access to a digital piano especially when you are learning a new piece, but when you are trying to put it all together and polish off a piece access to an acoustic is desirable unless you plan only to play on your digital piano. It's a good tool as this fine pianist is explaining but it's not a replacement. I use my VPC-1 every other day much as he's doing, but mostly just learn the notes and finger positioning through repetition. But it does take me a couple of hours on my acoustic to get my fingers fully retrained to the touch of an acoustic.

Two hours to fully retrain? I find this very odd as you presumably play on both of these constantly.

No, my work situation is such that I am away from my acoustic during the work week and practice on it only on weekends. That’s how I ended up with the VPC1 which I have in my company apartment.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
Gombessa #2964286 04/07/20 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I really don't know what to say about the whole left/right brain thing, I think I'll leave that to a neurologist.

The rest of the tips seem very interesting, and my guess is they are much more suited for experienced players who have already developed technique (i.e., a beginner player should probably not be using low volume practice regularly since it's important for them to understand the connection between the force needed on a keyboard to the right volume from an acoustic piano).

I wonder, is volume the aspect one should listen to when assessing dynamics or is it timbre?

When I play via headphones, I don't notice the volume swings so much (I found them lacking in most DPs, even when I crank it), orders of magnitudes less compared to when I play the acoustic grand at my music school. What I do notice is the timbre getting harsh.

Then again, when my teachers plays forte, I tend to cover my ears and ask her to stop because it is painful to me.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
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Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
Granyala #2964287 04/07/20 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Granyala
I wonder, is volume the aspect one should listen to when assessing dynamics or is it timbre?

When I play via headphones, I don't notice the volume swings so much (I found them lacking in most DPs, even when I crank it), orders of magnitudes less compared to when I play the acoustic grand at my music school. What I do notice is the timbre getting harsh.
Interesting question both I suppose.

You can adjust "volume" with the knob. Maybe with highly efficient headphones like the (sennheiser HD800 etc) and a powerful amp you might get more dynamic range. But too much and the FF are too loud and the pp are too soft as you note.

I guess you can adjust timbre most easily with the velocity curve and various EQing options on your computer.

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964291 04/07/20 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Maybe with highly efficient headphones like the (sennheiser HD800 etc) and a powerful amp you might get more dynamic range.

Focal Clear is plenty loud, loud enough that my ears experience pain.
I believe this has more to do with how humans perceive loudness via headphones vs. a speaker or a real physical object in the room.

With cans you always think "it could be louder" even though you're already dumping SPLs int your ears that are damaging.
Not sure why that is.

Sadly, while I do have great little speakers, they don't stand a chance at recreating the scope, volume and presence of a grand piano.

Last edited by Granyala; 04/07/20 02:53 AM.

The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
Granyala #2964319 04/07/20 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Granyala
[...]With cans you always think "it could be louder" even though you're already dumping SPLs int your ears that are damaging.
Not sure why that is.[...]


I guess our brain is able to recognize if a sound is directly and precisely fired in our ears like a laser beam (i.e. headphones) or it's a sound coming from many different directions and with ambience reverb inside it (i.e. a real piano sound in a room). My hypothesis is that when the sound is too direct to the center of our ears, the brain tries to find what is missing and maybe it interprets that what is missing is volume, so you tend to increase it more than necessary.

I always suggest to lower the volume when using headphones, even if you think the volume could be a little louder. Otherwise, you risk to damage your hearing ability well ahead of time.

Re: Digital Piano Practice Tips for Classical - Cunningham Piano
newer player #2964338 04/07/20 08:15 AM
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Interesting theory. When you listen to speakers in the mid/far field, most of the acoustic energy comes from indirect sources, you you might be on to sth.

I concur in regards to the volume. Always err on the side of caution and employ self discipline. That way, you can still enjoy your cans of awesome 20 years from now. laugh


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201

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