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Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
#2962760 04/01/20 10:06 PM
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Waltz in B minor, Op. 69 No. 2. So it starts in B minor, goes to B major. Two editions I'm looking at omit the double thirds in the B major section, others include the double thirds.

I hate to say "which is right" because Chopin had multiple publishers and he constantly changed his scores, but......

Which is right??? I'm a purist and I hate things like this, LOL.


Lisa

Playing RCM 7 & 8 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP & CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
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Re: Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
ebonykawai #2962788 04/02/20 01:06 AM
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It's not a question of inconsistency nor of "which is right;" it's simply a fact that there are two versions of the Waltzes, Op. 69, Nos. 1 and 2, and Op. 70, Nos. 1 and 2. The first version of each is taken from autographs, the second version of each is the version published by Chopin's friend, Julian Fontana, after Chopin's death. Henle, for example, publishes both versions. Most performers choose the Fontana versions of these Waltzes. The B minor Waltz, Op. 69, No. 2 with the middle section in double notes is the Fontana version and is longer, 172 measures compared to the 128 measures of the autograph version.

The same question often arises about the two versions of the Op. 66 Fantaisie-Impromptu. An autograph version was found in the 20th century by Arthur Rubinstein and is the version he plays on recordings he has made of the work. The Fontana version is the one played by most performers. The differences between the two are much less remarkable than the differences among the Opp. 69 and 70 Waltzes.

Regards,

Last edited by BruceD; 04/02/20 01:07 AM.

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Re: Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
ebonykawai #2962792 04/02/20 01:33 AM
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Bruce is correct.

There's also the problem with playing by whatever the autograph says. What if there's a glaring mistake in the autograph? Are you going to play the mistake "because Chopin wrote it," or are you going to figure out what is actually correct? If you're serious about learning a piece, you might consult several different editions.

And, soon, you will no longer be a purist, because there's no such thing as a definitive, urtext edition of anything.


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Re: Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
ebonykawai #2962846 04/02/20 08:25 AM
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Thank you both!! I'm trying hard to drop my stubbornness, it's definitely a fault of mine! This was extremely helpful, thank you both SO much!! ❤️


Lisa

Playing RCM 7 & 8 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP & CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
Re: Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
ebonykawai #2962850 04/02/20 08:48 AM
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There are actually at least 3 versions of the B minor Waltz. The first port-of-call for anyone playing any of the Waltzes should be the recent Peters edition edited by Christoph Grabowski (part of the ongoing "Complete Chopin") series. Grabowski's edition includes all 3 of these editions, along with a good list of the relevant variants in the critical notes at the back of the volume.

Jeff Kallberg

Re: Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
Jeff Kallberg #2962908 04/02/20 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Kallberg
There are actually at least 3 versions of the B minor Waltz. The first port-of-call for anyone playing any of the Waltzes should be the recent Peters edition edited by Christoph Grabowski (part of the ongoing "Complete Chopin") series. Grabowski's edition includes all 3 of these editions, along with a good list of the relevant variants in the critical notes at the back of the volume.

Jeff Kallberg


I'd forgotten all about this series, thank you! Definitely going to pick one of these up!


Lisa

Playing RCM 7 & 8 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP & CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
Re: Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
ebonykawai #2962971 04/02/20 02:10 PM
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A good reference for such Chopin things is the OCVE :

http://www.chopinonline.ac.uk/ocve/browse/

Re: Another Chopin inconsistency in the score
ebonykawai #2963554 04/04/20 07:36 AM
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I once attended a lecture on Chopin by Professor Kenneth Hamilton, he said Chopin's pupils said he never played his music the same way twice!!

Professor Kenneth Hamilton


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