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P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
#2961703 03/29/20 11:16 PM
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Anyone noticed that when in Binaural mode, there are no release samples for the CFX? The Bosendorfer does, and if I switch off Binaural, both the CFX and Bosendorfer have release samples. If anyone has noticed this, have they contacted Yamaha?

Greg.

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2961716 03/30/20 12:36 AM
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Yep I’ve noticed that too and is one of reasons I turn the binaural mode off. It’s a bummer and seems to be across the CLP line as well. I really like the release samples and wish they were included in the binaural mode.


Rhodes MkII Stage 73, Yamaha P515, Yamaha Reface CP + DX
Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2961726 03/30/20 01:05 AM
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Thanks Rhodie73. I've flicked a message to Yamaha support, just on the off chance it's not by design.

Greg.

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2961730 03/30/20 01:40 AM
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What is a release sample? Can you turn that on or off?


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Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2961740 03/30/20 02:19 AM
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It's the sound of the damper muffling the strings, when a key is released. There is a setting to adjust the level, from 0 to 10 (default 5) - it's in the Piano Setting menu. You'll see that it has no effect for the CFX, in Binaural mode.

Greg

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2961785 03/30/20 07:48 AM
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Hey Greg, please share Yamaha’s response if you get one, I’m curious to hear their rationale behind this one!


Rhodes MkII Stage 73, Yamaha P515, Yamaha Reface CP + DX
Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962457 04/01/20 06:14 AM
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Small correction: It's actually called "Key Off Sample" in the settings.

Greg

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962460 04/01/20 06:36 AM
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I think there's inherent problem in using release samples when they are recorded with distant microphones because those microphones catch the studio ambiance. Here's why:

- You have full-length samples
- You have separately recorded release samples from various points in time of the release.
- In order to combine them, you have to end the regular long sample at the point of release and append the release sample to it.

And there's the problem: they both contain ambiance in it, the abrupt cut will be ugly because there is difference of ambiance levels. Instead of abruptly cutting the regular sample, you have to decay it and at the same time crossfade into the release sample. And you can't just proportionally change the volume of the release sample based on the time of release. This is why there's a crossfade knob in Garritan CFX for example. And since binaural uses a microphone that's not close to the strings, it already contains some studio ambiance and the same problems arise. With regular samples they close-mice the piano, no ambiance is captured and then an artificial reverb is added to the end result. In other words, this is another problem of using sampled pianos. But I think well-made and clever scripting could to some degree solve this problem.

Last edited by CyberGene; 04/01/20 06:41 AM.

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Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962462 04/01/20 06:41 AM
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Well as I said, they DID include release samples for the binaural Bosendorfer. (and they sound absolutely fine to me)

Greg

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962463 04/01/20 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
Well as I said, they DID include release samples for the binaural Bosendorfer. (and they sound absolutely fine to me)

Greg

There's no binaural Bosendorfer in the Yamaha pianos. It's the regular Bosendorfer sample set with a headphone effect added on top of it. Only the CFX patch has separate samples for speakers (close miced) and binaural (microphone at player head level, so slightly distant and thus capturing ambiance).


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962464 04/01/20 06:47 AM
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Ah! Thanks! So it IS probably by design. Sorry about that.

No reply from Yamaha yet.

Greg.

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962466 04/01/20 06:56 AM
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I've just done something crazy - I read the manual. Sure enough - the binaural CFX does not have key-off samples.

I'm very surprised - I assumed the CFX and the Bosendorfer, being the main two pianos, would both have the same settings.

Greg.

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962474 04/01/20 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
I've just done something crazy - I read the manual. Sure enough - the binaural CFX does not have key-off samples.


I wonder what this means. Were they not show to capture key-off with the binaural setup? Or did they abbreviate the sample for other reasons? You can hear certain key-off effects from the bench, but surely not as much as a close-mic setup.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962478 04/01/20 08:01 AM
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What are key off samples?

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
Gombessa #2962481 04/01/20 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
[
I wonder what this means. Were they not show to capture key-off with the binaural setup? Or did they abbreviate the sample for other reasons? You can hear certain key-off effects from the bench, but surely not as much as a close-mic setup.


Well Cybergene has offered a possible explanation a few replies back. Who knows though - I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a bug, and I apologise for not consulting the manual before I posted.

Greg.

Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962540 04/01/20 11:42 AM
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No, I got what he said, but that doesn't address why key-off samples weren't captured binaurally from the same player position as the regular recording. It's not like the binaural samples aren't manipulated any other number of ways for final rendering (separating attack from decay, looping, sustain and soft effects, etc.).

I think they either couldn't capture the key-off samples sufficiently at player position (suggesting they may not be all that important in the first place) to make them worth including, or they didn't both sampling them in the first place (maybe because of the first reason).

There's also the product segmentation possibility, maybe the P-515 doesn't have binaural release samples, but perhaps the CLP-675/AGs or other of their DPs do?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
Gombessa #2962558 04/01/20 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
No, I got what he said, but that doesn't address why key-off samples weren't captured binaurally from the same player position as the regular recording. It's not like the binaural samples aren't manipulated any other number of ways for final rendering (separating attack from decay, looping, sustain and soft effects, etc.).

I think they either couldn't capture the key-off samples sufficiently at player position (suggesting they may not be all that important in the first place) to make them worth including, or they didn't both sampling them in the first place (maybe because of the first reason).

There's also the product segmentation possibility, maybe the P-515 doesn't have binaural release samples, but perhaps the CLP-675/AGs or other of their DPs do?

I agree. And I’ll test the N1X to check if binaural has release samples. But what’s interesting is in the table with voices there’s no column about release samples, unlike P515. There’s one for VRM. I’m wondering if there’s a modeled release instead.


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Re: P-515 No CFX release samples in Binaural mode?
sullivang #2962604 04/01/20 01:45 PM
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Good afternoon everybody, this is my fist message here in the forum! I have been reading it for a long time, just to choose my last piano. with the help of your opinions. I finally chose the Yamaha P515, but firstly I was proving the kawai Es8 and the Roland FP90.
I am very happy with my yamaha.
My 2 cuestions, if you could help me please are:
1. There is any program in wich one you can traspose in a musical partiture what you are playing in the piano? (as a clasical piano partiture?) I don´t know if yamaha has any option in this model, but I don´t find the option with the Smart Pianist program.
2. Can I change the salsa rhythm? I am trying to play montunos, tumbao, but this rhythm it is not enough specific for me. Could I include any new rhythm?
Thanks you friends.


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