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Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
#2961694 03/29/20 10:44 PM
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I just picked up a 2-pedal U1 from circa 1977 and noticed it has some pealing/missing veneer on the feet. Has anyone fixed this themselves? I have almost a full shop in my basement but have never, 1) worked on a large instrument and 2. worked with veneer.
I am thinking of reaching out to a refinisher who might be able to give me some pointers but I wanted to see what others on this board thought before I get brainwashed into a fix that I could have likely done myself. Also this piano is gonna get some abuse from two crazy kids anyway so I don't need it to look 100% perfect.
I would include the images but not sure how to do that with a URL, I am used to just uploading from my hard disk.
Thanks.
Plus any thoughts on how much longer this thing might live? The tech said it looked very good inside and I kno it came from one owner and wasn't used in a church or school, only as a practice piano for two generations of kids. Not a gray market piece, seasoned for US destination.

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Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2961718 03/30/20 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ClassicalDad
[...]
Plus any thoughts on how much longer this thing might live? The tech said it looked very good inside and I kno it came from one owner and wasn't used in a church or school, only as a practice piano for two generations of kids. Not a gray market piece, seasoned for US destination.


Only your piano tech can (possibly) answer that question. The life of any used piano depends upon its condition ("very good inside" doesn't necessarily indicate that much), the use it has had and the use it is going to get. It's already over 40 years old and might soon need major work, but, again, only your tech can give you the details.

Regards,


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Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962059 03/30/20 10:03 PM
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Thanks BruceD. Sounds like he had no major issues with it and didn't advise against getting it. Given that, I assume it has some years left on it. I'm just curious what the top end might be as it sounds like this has had a pretty pampered life.

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962139 03/31/20 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ClassicalDad
I just picked up a 2-pedal U1 from circa 1977 and noticed it has some pealing/missing veneer on the feet. Has anyone fixed this themselves? I have almost a full shop in my basement but have never, 1) worked on a large instrument and 2. worked with veneer.
I am thinking of reaching out to a refinisher who might be able to give me some pointers but I wanted to see what others on this board thought before I get brainwashed into a fix that I could have likely done myself. Also this piano is gonna get some abuse from two crazy kids anyway so I don't need it to look 100% perfect.
I would include the images but not sure how to do that with a URL, I am used to just uploading from my hard disk.
Thanks.
Plus any thoughts on how much longer this thing might live? The tech said it looked very good inside and I kno it came from one owner and wasn't used in a church or school, only as a practice piano for two generations of kids. Not a gray market piece, seasoned for US destination.

I have just finished building two 3ft high transmission-line speakers. I covered the whole area in ash wood using iron-on veneer. I had never veneered before but the job in my opinion is perfect. If you attempt this try a test on a piece of wood before working on the piano. It is essential when hot ironing to immediately follow the iron pressing down with a cold item such as a cold iron to solidify the glue. I should have said that as veneer is very thin the surface to be applied must be thoroughly prepared, i.e. old finish removed and wood sanded and filled.
Ian


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Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962221 03/31/20 12:06 PM
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Patching in veneer isn't a difficult technique. Were I you I would practice a few times to get a bit of experience.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962243 03/31/20 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Patching in veneer isn't a difficult technique. Were I you I would practice a few times to get a bit of experience.

+1

The key is having the same/similar thickness replacement veneer, and as few joints as possible. Also, you may have to cut the edges of the damaged/missing veneer to get a smooth edge/butt-joint when glueing the replacement veneer piece.

I have removed veneer from the inside of the leg/toe brace on an old upright to use the veneer on the sides of the piano where the damage is more likely to be seen/noticeable (rob from Peter to pay Paul smile ). Worked great, and I didn't notice the missing veneer on the inside of the toe brace.

If the piano is ebony, the repair should be less noticeable than a wood finish.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
Rickster #2962257 03/31/20 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Patching in veneer isn't a difficult technique. Were I you I would practice a few times to get a bit of experience.

+1

The key is having the same/similar thickness replacement veneer, and as few joints as possible. Also, you may have to cut the edges of the damaged/missing veneer to get a smooth edge/butt-joint when glueing the replacement veneer piece.

I have removed veneer from the inside of the leg/toe brace on an old upright to use the veneer on the sides of the piano where the damage is more likely to be seen/noticeable (rob from Peter to pay Paul smile ). Worked great, and I didn't notice the missing veneer on the inside of the toe brace.

If the piano is ebony, the repair should be less noticeable than a wood finish.

Good luck!

Rick


As a person whose been hiding furniture damage since trees were invented, order yourself some dental pics and jeweler’s glasses.


J & J
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Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962417 04/01/20 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ClassicalDad
I just picked up a 2-pedal U1 from circa 1977 and noticed it has some pealing/missing veneer on the feet. Has anyone fixed this themselves? I have almost a full shop in my basement but have never, 1) worked on a large instrument and 2. worked with veneer.
I am thinking of reaching out to a refinisher who might be able to give me some pointers but I wanted to see what others on this board thought before I get brainwashed into a fix that I could have likely done myself. Also this piano is gonna get some abuse from two crazy kids anyway so I don't need it to look 100% perfect.
I would include the images but not sure how to do that with a URL, I am used to just uploading from my hard disk.
Thanks.
Plus any thoughts on how much longer this thing might live? The tech said it looked very good inside and I kno it came from one owner and wasn't used in a church or school, only as a practice piano for two generations of kids. Not a gray market piece, seasoned for US destination.

We need to see pictures.

Is it an ebony piano with damaged finish or is it wood veneer?

I don't know the fix if it's wood grain. If it's ebony, it's fairly simple.

Last edited by Jack Moody; 04/01/20 01:00 AM.
Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962634 04/01/20 03:05 PM
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"...Sounds like he had no major issues with it and didn't advise against getting it. Given that, I assume..."

Sounds to me like it is moot, since you have already acquired it. Still, the tech could be asked for more information. If the action is acceptable, the sound is acceptable, and the worst you could find to do was fix a veneer divot down by the pedals, the court of last appeal would be your crystal ball. As the coach said, "Foretelling is really hard, especially the future."

Or, you could ask your kids how they like it, and why. Maybe that would be enough to nail down the intangibles.

If foretelling the past is of any interest to you, I would be asking what kind of maintenance it has had, including all members of the Big Three: tuning, regulation, and voicing--- and how long ago. At 43 years old, it's going to need something from all three food groups in order to stay strong and healthy, and to keep your young piano students from developing bad playing habits. I've already been corrected about this quote once, and I hope I get it right this time. A dad and daughter were shopping, and he asked her opinion about a candidate. 'No dynamic range,' was the verdict. She said something like, "You press down harder on the keys and nothing happens." I could hear the frustration in her voice, even in its print reduction.

An even playing action, some skillful needling to the 40+ years hammers, and ability to hold a tuning for a reasonable time (once it settles in) are graces that even the most modest practice piano can display without shame. It's also a quiet demonstration from Dad in making the most of what you have; you may be a concert D or you may not, but you can have the qualities that matter.


Clef

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
j&j #2962770 04/01/20 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
Patching in veneer isn't a difficult technique. Were I you I would practice a few times to get a bit of experience.

+1

The key is having the same/similar thickness replacement veneer, and as few joints as possible. Also, you may have to cut the edges of the damaged/missing veneer to get a smooth edge/butt-joint when glueing the replacement veneer piece.

I have removed veneer from the inside of the leg/toe brace on an old upright to use the veneer on the sides of the piano where the damage is more likely to be seen/noticeable (rob from Peter to pay Paul smile ). Worked great, and I didn't notice the missing veneer on the inside of the toe brace.

If the piano is ebony, the repair should be less noticeable than a wood finish.

Good luck!

Rick


As a person whose been hiding furniture damage since trees were invented, order yourself some dental pics and jeweler’s glasses.

HA I actually have both of for some reason. Thanks.

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
Jeff Clef #2962772 04/01/20 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Clef
"...Sounds like he had no major issues with it and didn't advise against getting it. Given that, I assume..."

Sounds to me like it is moot, since you have already acquired it. Still, the tech could be asked for more information. If the action is acceptable, the sound is acceptable, and the worst you could find to do was fix a veneer divot down by the pedals, the court of last appeal would be your crystal ball. As the coach said, "Foretelling is really hard, especially the future."

Or, you could ask your kids how they like it, and why. Maybe that would be enough to nail down the intangibles.

If foretelling the past is of any interest to you, I would be asking what kind of maintenance it has had, including all members of the Big Three: tuning, regulation, and voicing--- and how long ago. At 43 years old, it's going to need something from all three food groups in order to stay strong and healthy, and to keep your young piano students from developing bad playing habits. I've already been corrected about this quote once, and I hope I get it right this time. A dad and daughter were shopping, and he asked her opinion about a candidate. 'No dynamic range,' was the verdict. She said something like, "You press down harder on the keys and nothing happens." I could hear the frustration in her voice, even in its print reduction.

An even playing action, some skillful needling to the 40+ years hammers, and ability to hold a tuning for a reasonable time (once it settles in) are graces that even the most modest practice piano can display without shame. It's also a quiet demonstration from Dad in making the most of what you have; you may be a concert D or you may not, but you can have the qualities that matter.

Thanks for advice! I didn't ask on when it had last been regulated or voiced. I figured since it had been about 4 years since the last tuning maybe never? Kids love it, the 16 month old likes it the most... weirdly. I had only asked as I was wondering if I should think of putting any more into this given the age. Had heard Yamaha tended to live a little longer than other brands.

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962778 04/01/20 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Moody
Originally Posted by ClassicalDad
I just picked up a 2-pedal U1 from circa 1977 and noticed it has some pealing/missing veneer on the feet. Has anyone fixed this themselves? I have almost a full shop in my basement but have never, 1) worked on a large instrument and 2. worked with veneer.
I am thinking of reaching out to a refinisher who might be able to give me some pointers but I wanted to see what others on this board thought before I get brainwashed into a fix that I could have likely done myself. Also this piano is gonna get some abuse from two crazy kids anyway so I don't need it to look 100% perfect.
I would include the images but not sure how to do that with a URL, I am used to just uploading from my hard disk.
Thanks.
Plus any thoughts on how much longer this thing might live? The tech said it looked very good inside and I kno it came from one owner and wasn't used in a church or school, only as a practice piano for two generations of kids. Not a gray market piece, seasoned for US destination.

We need to see pictures.

Is it an ebony piano with damaged finish or is it wood veneer?

I don't know the fix if it's wood grain. If it's ebony, it's fairly simple.

This is a walnut with a satin finish.

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2962782 04/01/20 11:46 PM
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Your question is still a good one--- can this musical instrument be put in the best working order that is realistic, considering what it is, and affordable, considering what it could be. If your present tech has the techie mojo to regulate as well as tune (probably), and then help the hammers to sing their best so your kids will learn to love its voice, with all the many moods it can express... I would say you have the basis for a sincere conversation. And with that, you will have a tentative goal, and a plan. That's how the process always starts.

Generally, people feel their way, making adjustments over time until you just kind of know, "This is it. We're here."

It sounds to me like your 16-month-old is a natural; musicians are born with musicality innate to their nature. (That's what innate means; I guess I said it twice.) You could have a young Mozart... or Nannerl in the family. (Spell checker is protesting about how I spelled her name, the least of her problems, being born into a family of musicians whose brilliance outshined her own, yet she's still known to history.)

Yes, what you say is true, no piano or anything else lives forever; it will have a useful musical life that is shorter than a younger piano might. I would tell the kids that it would be a pleasure to see it well and fairly worn out supporting their musical education, so don't hold back. When people ask how old a piano they can get away with buying, I use the rule of thumb that 50 years is about all it will support without increasingly expensive maintenance for decreasing results. But, a Yamaha is a pretty sturdy make, and if it's been treated decently and your tech has already said it looks ok to buy, I'd say you have reason to feel pretty confident that it will serve your family for a significant time. Truly speaking, it will live as long as your young musicians remember it.


Clef

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
Jeff Clef #2962875 04/02/20 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Clef
Your question is still a good one--- can this musical instrument be put in the best working order that is realistic, considering what it is, and affordable, considering what it could be. If your present tech has the techie mojo to regulate as well as tune (probably), and then help the hammers to sing their best so your kids will learn to love its voice, with all the many moods it can express... I would say you have the basis for a sincere conversation. And with that, you will have a tentative goal, and a plan. That's how the process always starts.

Generally, people feel their way, making adjustments over time until you just kind of know, "This is it. We're here."

It sounds to me like your 16-month-old is a natural; musicians are born with musicality innate to their nature. (That's what innate means; I guess I said it twice.) You could have a young Mozart... or Nannerl in the family. (Spell checker is protesting about how I spelled her name, the least of her problems, being born into a family of musicians whose brilliance outshined her own, yet she's still known to history.)

Yes, what you say is true, no piano or anything else lives forever; it will have a useful musical life that is shorter than a younger piano might. I would tell the kids that it would be a pleasure to see it well and fairly worn out supporting their musical education, so don't hold back. When people ask how old a piano they can get away with buying, I use the rule of thumb that 50 years is about all it will support without increasingly expensive maintenance for decreasing results. But, a Yamaha is a pretty sturdy make, and if it's been treated decently and your tech has already said it looks ok to buy, I'd say you have reason to feel pretty confident that it will serve your family for a significant time. Truly speaking, it will live as long as your young musicians remember it.


What a beautiful post! Thank you.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
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Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
Jeff Clef #2963034 04/02/20 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Clef
Your question is still a good one--- can this musical instrument be put in the best working order that is realistic, considering what it is, and affordable, considering what it could be. If your present tech has the techie mojo to regulate as well as tune (probably), and then help the hammers to sing their best so your kids will learn to love its voice, with all the many moods it can express... I would say you have the basis for a sincere conversation. And with that, you will have a tentative goal, and a plan. That's how the process always starts.

Generally, people feel their way, making adjustments over time until you just kind of know, "This is it. We're here."

It sounds to me like your 16-month-old is a natural; musicians are born with musicality innate to their nature. (That's what innate means; I guess I said it twice.) You could have a young Mozart... or Nannerl in the family. (Spell checker is protesting about how I spelled her name, the least of her problems, being born into a family of musicians whose brilliance outshined her own, yet she's still known to history.)

Yes, what you say is true, no piano or anything else lives forever; it will have a useful musical life that is shorter than a younger piano might. I would tell the kids that it would be a pleasure to see it well and fairly worn out supporting their musical education, so don't hold back. When people ask how old a piano they can get away with buying, I use the rule of thumb that 50 years is about all it will support without increasingly expensive maintenance for decreasing results. But, a Yamaha is a pretty sturdy make, and if it's been treated decently and your tech has already said it looks ok to buy, I'd say you have reason to feel pretty confident that it will serve your family for a significant time. Truly speaking, it will live as long as your young musicians remember it.

This is an incredible reply. THANK YOU! I have a good feeling about this one. It is my first piano as an adult and it may be my last, I am truly excited. I think we will get it voiced and regulated after hearing everyone's feedback.

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2963092 04/02/20 08:07 PM
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Nannerl Mozart had amazing musical gifts !
She performed with her brother , for royalty ,and powerful clergy in Europe.
Being born a woman she was not really allowed to fully develope
as a performing artist.
Although her brother was a truly usually gifted child and of course his genius
far suppassed that of his sister and his father ,she must have been an amazing
singer and pianist.
Always obedient to her father, (who she took care of in his later years )she finally
was allowed to marry a Baron .( Although a much older man than herself )
The story goes that she lived to be quite old and she always loved playing for her
family. The pieces she mainly played of course consisted of arrangements of Wolfgang 's
operas.

(The last two lines come from a biography of Mozart written almost a hundred
years ago )
There is a beautiful movie called "Mozart's Sister"
The movie is based on fantasy ,but is well worth watching.

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
Lady Bird #2963138 04/02/20 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Nannerl Mozart had amazing musical gifts !
She performed with her brother , for royalty ,and powerful clergy in Europe.
Being born a woman she was not really allowed to fully develope
as a performing artist.
Although her brother was a truly usually gifted child and of course his genius
far suppassed that of his sister and his father ,she must have been an amazing
singer and pianist.
Always obedient to her father, (who she took care of in his later years )she finally
was allowed to marry a Baron .( Although a much older man than herself )
The story goes that she lived to be quite old and she always loved playing for her
family. The pieces she mainly played of course consisted of arrangements of Wolfgang 's
operas.

(The last two lines come from a biography of Mozart written almost a hundred
years ago )
There is a beautiful movie called "Mozart's Sister"
The movie is based on fantasy ,but is well worth watching.

I never knew. He had a sister thanks for sharing!!

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2963673 04/04/20 04:07 PM
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Here are the veneer issue images...finally hopefully figured out.

Hope it works..[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2963676 04/04/20 04:16 PM
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Here is the piano..for anyone interested..Yahama U1D 1976
[Linked Image]carice anouk van houten

Re: Veneer Issues with Yamaha Upright - Any easy fix?
ClassicalDad #2963852 04/05/20 11:24 AM
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If I had the piano in my shop I could make this disappear though I have retired from refinishing.

This depends on what final result you want. In my shop I would replace the missing cross veneer and then splice in matching veneer, stain and finish. Because it is so low on the piano you could use a wood filler and do a faux finish to blend it in. Most people would not see it. The easiest thing to do is get a furniture marker and stain the bare wood. I would still show but be less noticeable.

You originally asked if you could do this yourself. It would depend on how critical you are and what you can live with.


Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com
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