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Change the product by a brand new could be a solution.

But while doing that I will never know if it is the piano or my ears.
And as a technician will come, it is an opportunity to have a N1X be regulated, and so be sure that the sound will be (after regulation etc.) the right sound that Yamaha designed.

The technician said he will begin by cleaning the sensors ; it must be a common defect, caused by the transport or whatnot.
I can't be sure that a new N1X won't have the same flaws.

After the technician work, if the piano is bad, I took a decision to replace or not (I have 5 years garanty)

Perhaps I will just begin to speak with my dealer about an other solution, like exchanging with a silent.

I thought a lot before buying a N1X.

I eliminate the acoustic silent because of the necessity to tune and have a damp chaser (essentially my wife didn't want, it was my first solution). I already spoke to my dealer about it, and he said an acoustic needs months with a damp chaser to be stabilized (so have many tuning necessary), taking into account that I have very bad conditions.
I eliminate Kaway CA98 because of the sound I didn't like. So that is the same with the Novus.

But now I re considerate the Kawai brand because they have the cheaper good acoustic silent K200 and K300 ATX3.
I am not sure the sound with headphones will be the sale as the sound of the CA98, I would have to try it.

I play 95 % of the time with headphones, so I thought that I will accept a bad sound while playing without headphones. But in fact it is the only moment when I will hear a piano in normal conditions. And the more I think of it the more I think It is very difficult for me to never hear the sound of an acoustic. A good sound.
As simple as an old Yamaha U3 that is a Rolls compared to the N1X.


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You can also use a good piano VST. At least with headphones it will sound better than the internal piano engine (maybe much better) but IMHO you will never get the same experience of an acoustic piano. No digital watch can give you the same feeling of a pure mechanical watch.

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Originally Posted by magicpiano
You can also use a good piano VST. At least with headphones it will sound better than the internal piano engine (maybe much better) but IMHO you will never get the same experience of an acoustic piano. No digital watch can give you the same feeling of a pure mechanical watch.

I’ve been playing with my DIY controller and Gartitan CFX Full for the last days. Moving back to the N1X is an awkward experience. I was hesitating to state that with certainty until I gather more experience but Garritan CFX Full is clearly better. The binaural sound is way too dry and lacking reverb in comparison. Oddly enough using the N1X as a controller for Garritan and with the embedded USB audio interface, it introduces some latency which makes it feel worse than playing the internal sounds. However my DIY controller (should I call it Cybrid, thanks to sleutelboss) has no perceptible latency and suddenly makes the comparison fairer and I’d be hard pressed to say Garritan isn’t better sounding...

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/11/20 01:35 PM.

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I'm not surprised at all to hear this. My guess is that the two keyboards are distinct enough that you've developed a subconscious "feel" for each one, and moving back and forth will just feel a bit off even if you can't explain it. It could even be the case that there is no additional latency on the N1X with Garritan versus your controller, but somehow you sense there is.

I was thinking, this may not be a bad time to try an absolute measure of latency. Point a shotgun mic at your keybed and record the latency of a keystrike versus the sounding of the VST! It would be interesting to see how the homebrew compares.


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The latency test would be awesome. I’m right now planning on buying a VST for my p-515 and latency should be similar to the N1X but not sure if it’s worth it for me.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I’ve been playing with my DIY controller and Gartitan CFX Full for the last days. Moving back to the N1X is an awkward experience. I was hesitating to state that with certainty until I gather more experience but Garritan CFX Full is clearly better. The binaural sound is way too dry and lacking reverb in comparison. Oddly enough using the N1X as a controller for Garritan and with the embedded USB audio interface, it introduces some latency which makes it feel worse than playing the internal sounds. However my DIY controller (should I call it Cybrid, thanks to sleutelboss) has no perceptible latency and suddenly makes the comparison fairer and I’d be hard pressed to say Garritan isn’t better sounding...

With Cybrid, you are using headphones hanging off your computer, correct? If so, why do you use the USB audio interface on the N1X for comparison?

Could you just hang your headphones directly off the computer, then compare latencies?

I haven't solved my latency problems with NV10/MBP/Pianoteq. Got some good suggestions but haven't been too motivated.

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Originally Posted by navindra
With Cybrid, you are using headphones hanging off your computer, correct? If so, why do you use the USB audio interface on the N1X for comparison?

Could you just hang your headphones directly off the computer, then compare latencies?

It's a bit difficult. They are in different rooms...

Anyway, all is so subjective it seems. I haven't been playing since yesterday. So, the first thing I did just now is to play the N1X. Hmm, well known experience, all is ultra smooth, buttery smooth! The sound is great, natural, as though I'm not wearing headphones. No need to repeat what has been said so many times. I went then and played the Cybrid with the Garritan CFX. The very first impression is the sound is just too smeared with all the reverb laugh (And the action is a bit springy but I already said that before). Then I gradually adapted to it. I went back to the N1X and for a moment the ultra clean notes were too dry and lacking reverb, the action was too "firm" and precise.

Anyway, I think Garritan is what you hear on piano records. It's a well recorded sample with fantastic real ambiance. But it's not probably how you will experience the piano if you were in front of it playing it. No way just mixing a few microphones from close and far would make it behave realistic. But it's beautiful smile

N1X CFX binaural is a good practice piano. It may not be great for recordings but it's very realistic, it sounds like a piano in your own room that you play. Recording a piano in your room won't match a commercial CD. It's a bit rough and dry. But that's what you practice on and how you become good.

Each with its strengths and weaknesses. I think this is fair now smile

P.S. To add a bit more to the above: on the Garritan due to the very rich and reverberating sound it's easy to miss slight nuance errors. It just makes everything sound right, even mistakes laugh The N1X is unforgiving. It really makes me perfect my lines.

Last edited by CyberGene; 03/11/20 04:25 PM.

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This is what I also noticed: the internal sound of most DPs is so dry and (unnaturally) clean that you hear very well every little mistake in your playing. If you play a wrong note on a DP, this note probably will sound horrible. On a real acoustic piano, probably it will sound not so bad! IMHO that's the magic of the soundboard which transfers the energy of a vibrating string to all the others via the bridge, creating a perfect harmony of sympathetic resonances.

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Anyway, I think Garritan is what you hear on piano records. It's a well recorded sample with fantastic real ambiance. But it's not probably how you will experience the piano if you were in front of it playing it. No way just mixing a few microphones from close and far would make it behave realistic. But it's beautiful smile

N1X CFX binaural is a good practice piano. It may not be great for recordings but it's very realistic, it sounds like a piano in your own room that you play. Recording a piano in your room won't match a commercial CD. It's a bit rough and dry. But that's what you practice on and how you become good.


I use VST 100% of the time for piano. And, I had the same experience with Garritan CFX. I absolutely love the sound - but just couldn't get it 'dry enough' for regular practice to notice my mistakes. For example, with Hanon exercises, if my left and right hands were not perfectly synchronized, Garritan CFX was very unforgiving and it was hard to notice that. But, moving to a dryer sound (built-in Novus NV10 or Pianoteq), it was very obvious. I moved to Embertone Walker D due to this - but that had playability issues. I moved on to VSL Concert D-274, and its default sound has a lot of reverb, but could be customized enough to make it suitable for daily practice.

If I were ever to publish a piano recording, I will probably choose Garritan CFX. But, for day to day practice to get better at piano, I can't use it regularly.

Osho


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Originally Posted by CyberGene


P.S. To add a bit more to the above: on the Garritan due to the very rich and reverberating sound it's easy to miss slight nuance errors. It just makes everything sound right, even mistakes laugh The N1X is unforgiving. It really makes me perfect my lines.


I know for guitar if want to develop good technique it's better to play with a dry signal rather than with distortion, delay, or reverb. It's easy to slur things together with those effects, but you can't hide bad technique when you have a clean sound.

I really like ViLabs Modern U because it's a very dry sample and it forces me to be smooth and practice with good technique. I actually add slight room reverb to soften the sound some, otherwise, it's just too clean.

God bless,
David


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I also agree with Osho. Try and customize VSL CFX or D-274, or just use Garritan CFX Lite to get a dry sound. The best thing of VSL CFX or Steinway is that they give a very wide dynamic range. By fine tuning the mics and velocity curve, it’s possible to get ppp or fff with proper technique. While I found it harder on other pianos. While this does not apply to VSL Bluthner and Bosendorfer Upright, I just can’t get the large grand sound that I want.


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Hi, I just received my N1X yesterday, wanted to thank everyone on this thread (and related, like the giant NV10 one) for so much helpful information while making a decision, upgrading from my 1994 Clavinova!

The piano was great when I got it, but (luckily it turns out) the lowest C was a bit sticky, taking a second or so to return to normal position. I sent a note to the dealer, noting it was perhaps a regulation issue, but no hurry as I don't use that key very much. smile

They put me in touch with a technician, he had a last minute cancellation, so he came already today. He pointed out that actually several keys in the lower register were kind of sluggish. He proceeded to take apart the whole action, the keys were spread all over the floor! He ironed the bushings, applied some teflon spray, etc. All in all he spent over an hour, and the action is really amazing now. I hadn't spent that much time with it before (since it had just arrived), and it might be partly in my head, but it really feels noticeably smoother and nicer to play! So, incredible service from the local dealer and the expert technician, and I'm so glad I had that extra sticky key or I wouldn't know what I was missing out on!

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Originally Posted by NoMeGa
Hi, I just received my N1X yesterday, wanted to thank everyone on this thread (and related, like the giant NV10 one) for so much helpful information while making a decision, upgrading from my 1994 Clavinova!

The piano was great when I got it, but (luckily it turns out) the lowest C was a bit sticky, taking a second or so to return to normal position. I sent a note to the dealer, noting it was perhaps a regulation issue, but no hurry as I don't use that key very much. smile

They put me in touch with a technician, he had a last minute cancellation, so he came already today. He pointed out that actually several keys in the lower register were kind of sluggish. He proceeded to take apart the whole action, the keys were spread all over the floor! He ironed the bushings, applied some teflon spray, etc. All in all he spent over an hour, and the action is really amazing now. I hadn't spent that much time with it before (since it had just arrived), and it might be partly in my head, but it really feels noticeably smoother and nicer to play! So, incredible service from the local dealer and the expert technician, and I'm so glad I had that extra sticky key or I wouldn't know what I was missing out on!

Welcome, NoMeGa! Wow, makes me think that I will want a regulation this year sometime.

We're up to 46! : Euler1707, CyberGene, pianokat123, J5on, Amy C, Bro', jgbs, Tyrone Slothrop, David B, Chrispy, percy64, nax, Canticle80, kipdent, Haruki, RobertInFlorida, stewart715, StefVR (sold), JJHLH, Onyx, perezdaniel88, Adagios/Pabitel, wintyfresh, Aristede, srslysupersonic, kiwon0905, Csillag, EddyN1x, tntultra, Realisme, leiting, Zamenhof, OldTinho, betacentauri, Camass, BachToTheFuture, L*E*D, Stuart Mac, EricF, hlm3, elendil, Lam, IanL, DionG, dancingfish, N1X-Guy, NoMeGa. grin


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Originally Posted by NoMeGa
Hi, I just received my N1X yesterday, wanted to thank everyone on this thread (and related, like the giant NV10 one) for so much helpful information while making a decision, upgrading from my 1994 Clavinova!


Congratulations on the N1X NoMeGa!


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Hi guys,
I am currently deciding between buying the N1X or the NV10. I have read a lot on this website, listened to youtube videos and saw them in the shop.
Since I am not an experienced piano player I find it very very hard to decide between these two. I read that binaural sampling of the Yamaha is considered to be a game changer, but that the speakers of the Kawai are better. The action of the Kawai is supposed to be heavy but the design ist better. I found so many other arguments for both sides, but haven't really come to a decision. Can you tell me which of the two you prefer and why? Thanks so much!

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Originally Posted by Paul123
Hi guys,
I am currently deciding between buying the N1X or the NV10. I have read a lot on this website, listened to youtube videos and saw them in the shop.
Since I am not an experienced piano player I find it very very hard to decide between these two. I read that binaural sampling of the Yamaha is considered to be a game changer, but that the speakers of the Kawai are better. The action of the Kawai is supposed to be heavy but the design ist better. I found so many other arguments for both sides, but haven't really come to a decision. Can you tell me which of the two you prefer and why? Thanks so much!

In a head-to-head comparison of the two when I was buying, I preferred the N1X mainly because I mostly use headphones when I play (I'm in a mult-occupancy building), and to me, the binaural sound from the headphones was clearly superior. If however I had expected to mostly use speakers when playing and only sometimes use headphones, I might have gone for the NV10 instead as I did think with speakers, the NV10 sounded a bit better to me.


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Originally Posted by BachToTheFuture
News from my N1X sound problem.

After some phones calls with my dealer, I finally received a call from a Yamaha technician today.

I explained my problem and he could hear the sound via my smartphone. And he confirmed there was a problem.
So he explained me how to calibrate the keyboard-sensors etc. system.
It is not very complicated but I don't remember exactly all.
It is necessary after the N1X did some resetting (resets ?), to play all the keys.
The supposed flaw comes from the optical captors and their position.
It is possible that the velocity information is at the max for the captor while it is not the case for the key (and the pianist).

So after calibration, I found only two keys being strident (B and C the third from the higher note). That is better, from roughly ten keys to two, but not perfect. One of my son confirmed my judgement, so it is not my ears.

The technician said I should play the piano because all the mechanical parts have to acclimate (?) themselves to the local conditions. And the last two keys problem could be solved only by playing.
If that doesn't work I have another number to call, in order to obtain the visit of a technician, that would clean all the parts, captors etc.

So I will play as I have already done. I think I play an average duration of 4 hours a day.



Have you tried to transpose the keyboard 2 steps up or down to see if the bad sound is tied to the key itself or if it is the sampling that is bad?

I have some bad overtones on my D#2, B4 and C5 that is moved along the keyboard when I'm doing a transpose. The sound issues are not tied the keys itself on my N1X.


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Originally Posted by RonnieK
Originally Posted by BachToTheFuture
News from my N1X sound problem.

After some phones calls with my dealer, I finally received a call from a Yamaha technician today.

I explained my problem and he could hear the sound via my smartphone. And he confirmed there was a problem.
So he explained me how to calibrate the keyboard-sensors etc. system.
It is not very complicated but I don't remember exactly all.
It is necessary after the N1X did some resetting (resets ?), to play all the keys.
The supposed flaw comes from the optical captors and their position.
It is possible that the velocity information is at the max for the captor while it is not the case for the key (and the pianist).

So after calibration, I found only two keys being strident (B and C the third from the higher note). That is better, from roughly ten keys to two, but not perfect. One of my son confirmed my judgement, so it is not my ears.

The technician said I should play the piano because all the mechanical parts have to acclimate (?) themselves to the local conditions. And the last two keys problem could be solved only by playing.
If that doesn't work I have another number to call, in order to obtain the visit of a technician, that would clean all the parts, captors etc.

So I will play as I have already done. I think I play an average duration of 4 hours a day.



Have you tried to transpose the keyboard 2 steps up or down to see if the bad sound is tied to the key itself or if it is the sampling that is bad?

I have some bad overtones on my D#2, B4 and C5 that is moved along the keyboard when I'm doing a transpose. The sound issues are not tied the keys itself on my N1X.




I will try, I didn't think to that.

Now, I feel that there is more than two keys with a strident sound. I wait for a technician (7th of april) but with the coronavirus, I think it will be long before he cames.


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Hi guys, new here but just wanted to first say thanks for all the useful comments/feedback made on this forum, which helped me to decide between the Yamaha NU1X and N1X. I didn't particularly like the random loud noise effect on the NU1X even after the firmware fix which seemed to have mitigated the effect to a certain extent, but more importantly, I felt that the key action on the N1X was much better. Nevertheless, I'm used to playing a Yamaha upright piano when I was in school so moving to a digital grand action is a new experience for me.

I received my N1X a couple of days ago and been playing on it quite a bit. However, during a play, I encountered several random instances (I must reiterate that it's very, very infrequent) where the sustain pedal lost its effect even though my foot was still on it. It doesn't happen often so I was wondering if it's something faulty mechanically or just my lack of experience in pedalling well with the half-sustain feature.

Does anyone have this issue?

Any thoughts appreciated!


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If your foot is down, and it doesn't sustain, then there's something wrong. Nothing to do with your technique. No matter how you pressed/released/half-pedaled immediately before, if the pedal is down, it must sustain.


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