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I had understood 12 hours was pretty safe but I see more information is now available:
"But how long can the new coronavirus linger on surfaces, anyway? The short answer is, we don't know. A new analysis found that the virus can remain viable in the air for up to 3 hours, on copper for up to 4 hours, on cardboard up to 24 hours and on plastic and stainless steel up to 72 hours. This study was originally published in the preprint database medRxiv on March 11, and now a revised version was published March 17 in The New England Journal of Medicine."
That said it isn't a black and white thing - there is no magic interval where suddenly after that time has expired all the viruses will die. As they are exposed on the surfaces (particularly if the windows are open and there is good air circulation) some of the viruses will be dying So even if they haven't all completely died off you will, by not entering the piano room for an interval, have reduced the number of viable viruses and hence the chance of infection.
The Journal of Hospital Infections come to a different conclusion from research —— 9 days for plastic https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext
Last edited by dogperson; 03/20/20 01:16 PM.
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Two of maybe kids started piano lessons through a zoom class right before this. It was a challenge to figure out how to see the keys well. I ended up getting an adjustable laptop stand where the angle and the height adjust and placed the laptop to the side at an angle. The first lesson I kept it far enough away to see their face still which for a kid is less then an adult. It worked ok but it was hard for the teacher to hear them talk so I will try closer. Another teacher gave me the idea to use two devices and turn the sound and microphone off one so there is no interference. I might try that with one to the side for the hands and wrists and one on the stand to make speaking easier and to see the face too. The sound issue may be one that most video conferencing platforms have that if there's a loud sound it will reduce the mic volume. This feature works great for voice chatting, but awful for piano playing with dynamic changes. I recommend shutting this off and manually adjusting the mic settings. You should be able to hear speaking voice just fine from a distance on one device. I also recommend testing out with a friend ahead of time to work these issues out rather than trying to do it during a lesson.
private piano/voice teacher FT ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/2529.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/9342.png)
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Joined: Sep 2018
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I had Skype lessons for a while before I found a local teacher.
I used a webcam connected to my laptop and supported on an 11 inch 'magic articulating arm' screwed into a small desktop camera tripod sat on a shelf just behind my keyboard. I had a separate microphone for my voice, but fed the output of my DP back into the laptop via the same mixer and a DAC (actually an ADC for any pedants out there).
It worked well, even with my very shaky broadband. It wasn't as good as sitting next to somebody, but if it means being able to continue lessons then I'd go back to it without any hesitation.
I'd be a far better pianist if I spent the time I'm on this forum playing my piano instead.
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earlofmar
My teacher said he has done a couple of lessons on FaceTime . How did your lesson go? Most teachers are using Zoom
Thanks Judy
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Joined: Apr 2018
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Most teachers are using Zoom In Zoom, one can turn off the automatic "lossy" audio compression for both sides of the connection. This is extremely good for music. Most other messaging platforms, such as Skype, do not have this ability. For those that don't know how to do this, you should look it up on the Zoom help pages. It's really good. One other thing to turn off is the automatic dynamic adjustment. You don't want soft passages to get louder and louder passages to get softer. You want it to be soft and loud only when you are playing soft and loud. So turn off the automatic dynamics level adjustment.
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/12282.png) across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Joined: Oct 2010
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During the lessons, the situation is quite controlled, just you , the teacher and the piano. If you don't touch your face during the lesson and wash your hands before and after, it should be ok assuming both are healthy.
I would strongly advise against this as a form of effective control. It's good to try to limit contact and be aware of what you are doing, but most of us are unaware of how often we touch our faces or how minimal contact with surfaces need to be to transmit the disease. It may be worth watching something like this to see what we can't see with our own eyes: https://youtu.be/WpL3eKjaxDgI think you may have the wrong like there? Re the original quote above "If you don't touch your face during the lesson and wash your hands before and after, it should be ok assuming both are healthy": That seems pretty obvious, if you are both healthy you would be OK, but that is *assuming* you are healthy and that might not actually be the case. Clearly having online lessons is safer, if you do have a face to face lesson though you can improve the chances of avoiding infection by other steps as well like: Wearing face masks (which protects the other person more than yourself), Leaving the windows open before, during and after the lesson. Not using the piano (and ideally not going into the piano room) before the lesson and again not until the next morning. This is the easier alternative to sterilising everything. Trying to avoid both touching any of the surfaces. Any the piano teacher can't avoid touching like perhaps door handles etc. clean both before and after the visit. All of these things will help, but not entirely eliminate the risk.
If music be the food of love, play on!
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Joined: Jan 2013
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I canceled mine last yesterday, even though its a private studio and Im sure teach is very careful, those little kids most likely are not. I'm an at risk older person so not taking any chances. I don't know anyone who is ill and haven't heard of any cases locally here in the BC Interior. I shall check if he is going to Skype at all or offer any alternative. It's hard to imagine being able to really see what's going on with your hands on the keyboard from a screen. I can ask specific questions and I have lots. Maybe it is an alternative for him to come to me.I shall ask. Had lots of practice time this week!
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Joined: Mar 2013
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earlofmar
My teacher said he has done a couple of lessons on FaceTime . How did your lesson go? Most teachers are using Zoom
Thanks Judy Yeah my lesson went really well on Face Time. I did want to use Zoom and might in the future but my teacher was already well versed with Face Time and just gets by when it comes to technology. We were both using ipads and the inbuilt mics and cameras were pretty good for what we were doing, I don't have anything to complain about. Another plus I thought about taking lessons online is, we are in our normal practice environment, perhaps there is a greater chance a teacher will see something we are doing wrong. Just trying to be positive about the whole situation.
Surprisingly easy, barely an inconvenience. Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10 13x ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/7728.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/5225.png)
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I just had my Zoom test session today with my teacher, where we tested the audio and video in my piano room. It was just a technology test, making sure everything looked and sounded the best possible (e.g., the right height, angle, loudness, dynamics, etc). We figured it out and we’re set for my first Zoom lesson next week.
I used my laptop and ended up having to use a headset with mic as well, for better sound.
Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 03/20/20 08:10 PM.
Kawai K500
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Thanks Earofmar,
I don’t have an iPad and I found out it will not work on Windows so we are going to try using Zoom. I have a friend who has had two lessons using Zoom so I will try to practice with her before my lesson next Friday. I can’t figure out how to put something in quotes on here so you can see how technologically challenged I am.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391 |
Thanks Earofmar,
I don’t have an iPad and I found out it will not work on Windows so we are going to try using Zoom. I have a friend who has had two lessons using Zoom so I will try to practice with her before my lesson next Friday. I can’t figure out how to put something in quotes on here so you can see how technologically challenged I am. I highly recommend chatting or calling the Zoom tech support. You don't need a paid subscription to get the support, and they are very helpful.
private piano/voice teacher FT
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 81
Full Member
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Full Member
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I had my first online lesson tonight on Zoom and it went better than I thought it would. I definitely prefer in-person, but that's not something that can happen for a while obviously. Connection issues to start, but I think that was more my wifi. Teacher said there's occasional issues during primetime hours, though, too. All in all fairly happy with how it went.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,903
1000 Post Club Member
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I had understood 12 hours was pretty safe but I see more information is now available:
"But how long can the new coronavirus linger on surfaces, anyway? The short answer is, we don't know. A new analysis found that the virus can remain viable in the air for up to 3 hours, on copper for up to 4 hours, on cardboard up to 24 hours and on plastic and stainless steel up to 72 hours. This study was originally published in the preprint database medRxiv on March 11, and now a revised version was published March 17 in The New England Journal of Medicine."
That said it isn't a black and white thing - there is no magic interval where suddenly after that time has expired all the viruses will die. As they are exposed on the surfaces (particularly if the windows are open and there is good air circulation) some of the viruses will be dying So even if they haven't all completely died off you will, by not entering the piano room for an interval, have reduced the number of viable viruses and hence the chance of infection.
The Journal of Hospital Infections come to a different conclusion from research —— 9 days for plastic https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext Three experts in a room, four opinions :-) Some concensus will eventually emerge as more studies are done.
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370
PW Gold Subscriber Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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PW Gold Subscriber Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 12,370 |
I had understood 12 hours was pretty safe but I see more information is now available:
"But how long can the new coronavirus linger on surfaces, anyway? The short answer is, we don't know. A new analysis found that the virus can remain viable in the air for up to 3 hours, on copper for up to 4 hours, on cardboard up to 24 hours and on plastic and stainless steel up to 72 hours. This study was originally published in the preprint database medRxiv on March 11, and now a revised version was published March 17 in The New England Journal of Medicine."
That said it isn't a black and white thing - there is no magic interval where suddenly after that time has expired all the viruses will die. As they are exposed on the surfaces (particularly if the windows are open and there is good air circulation) some of the viruses will be dying So even if they haven't all completely died off you will, by not entering the piano room for an interval, have reduced the number of viable viruses and hence the chance of infection.
The Journal of Hospital Infections come to a different conclusion from research —— 9 days for plastic https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext Three experts in a room, four opinions :-) Some concensus will eventually emerge as more studies are done. It is true that different research will have different results; but at least it is a scientific conclusion. Your original statement that avoiding the piano room would be enough is totally unsupported by evidence and a potentially harmful advice to be posting.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,474
1000 Post Club Member
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1000 Post Club Member
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I did a practice FaceTime with a piano friend and the sound quality on both ends was terrible. I have an IPad and friend has an IPhone. I don’t see any settings on FaceTime to make adjustments. I even tried using a bluetooth speaker on my end and it did not help the sound quality. The quality is so poor that I do not think an online lesson would work. Sounds like the other person is under water.
Next step is to try Zoom. Morodiene and Tyrone, under settings I do not have.the option of turning off “Automatically adjust volume”, “lossy audio compression or any other audio settings. I am assuming it is because I am using the free, not subscription, version.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,977
2000 Post Club Member
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♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ Yamaha C3X YouTube![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/21183.png)
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Joined: Jul 2011
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This works for subscription accounts, not the free basic ones.
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 20
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Full Member
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 20 |
Two of maybe kids started piano lessons through a zoom class right before this. It was a challenge to figure out how to see the keys well. I ended up getting an adjustable laptop stand where the angle and the height adjust and placed the laptop to the side at an angle. The first lesson I kept it far enough away to see their face still which for a kid is less then an adult. It worked ok but it was hard for the teacher to hear them talk so I will try closer. Another teacher gave me the idea to use two devices and turn the sound and microphone off one so there is no interference. I might try that with one to the side for the hands and wrists and one on the stand to make speaking easier and to see the face too. The sound issue may be one that most video conferencing platforms have that if there's a loud sound it will reduce the mic volume. This feature works great for voice chatting, but awful for piano playing with dynamic changes. I recommend shutting this off and manually adjusting the mic settings. You should be able to hear speaking voice just fine from a distance on one device. I also recommend testing out with a friend ahead of time to work these issues out rather than trying to do it during a lesson. The speakers on the device I am using are really puny which is part of the problem. I did not realize that it could reduce the mic volume if there is a loud sound though. I did use the zoom test to try it out before hand.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,977
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Correct, it also says it in the prereqs in the support article linked above. It's easy to miss though. Prerequisites
Free with Credit Card, Pro, Business or API Partner Account
Owner or Admin Privileges to Enable
Zoom Desktop Client
Windows: 4.1.8826.0925 or higher
macOS: 4.1.8826.0925 or higher
♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ Yamaha C3X YouTube
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