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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2958928 03/20/20 11:44 AM
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One thing that has always bugged me about that Piano Buyer article is that they have this magic room with no doors. (how are you supposed to get in there? let alone getting the piano in there... confused )

I think having a doorway (which is what I have, no door so it's always open into a hallway) changes things.

And I would bet that most people have a grand in a shared space (living room etc) that has at least one always-open doorway, rather than a dedicated room where the door is always closed.

I wish they discussed that more specifically.


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
ShiroKuro #2958930 03/20/20 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
One thing that has always bugged me about that Piano Buyer article is that they have this magic room with no doors. (how are you supposed to get in there? let alone getting the piano in there... confused )

I think having a doorway (which is what I have, no door so it's always open into a hallway) changes things.

And I would bet that most people have a grand in a shared space (living room etc) that has at least one always-open doorway, rather than a dedicated room where the door is always closed.

I wish they discussed that more specifically.


My understanding (?) is that the room size information in the Piano Buyer link is no longer followed. Maybe they can confirm and/or revise.


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2958936 03/20/20 12:02 PM
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I sort of want to do a review on acoustic room treatment options. Maybe start with a boomy room with a lot of hard surfaces. On my trip home from NAMM, I was sitting at a gate at LAX with a rep from Auralex.


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2958941 03/20/20 12:10 PM
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TD, yes please!!

Quote
Maybe start with a boomy room with a lot of hard surfaces.


With two door options: 1) there's a doorway opening to a hallway, 2) one of the walls is actually an arched doorway (double-door size) that opens to a dining room.

I bet that describes more than half of the rooms where people have grand pianos!


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
MarkL #2958970 03/20/20 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkL
What is the item against the lower wall that looks like a stretched out letter "M"?
I would personally weigh the value of looking outdoors while playing as well as the sound. That would favor 1a since you can look over your left shoulder, or look straight ahead through the small window and see out. Or rotate the piano in diagram 1a 45 deg counter clockwise so the tail points into the corner and you can see out the french doors and the small window.

Thank you. The M is another set of French doors to get into the room from the hallway. Bad drawing skills. I think turning the piano to face the corner would provide an excellent view, but probably one of the worst choices for the sound. Ah, the choices...!


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
David-G #2958973 03/20/20 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by David-G
Looking over a grand into the room as you play is a great pleasure. My piano is in position 3a, but modified so that the tail end is a bit further from the wall, i.e. the piano is rotated clockwise slightly on the diagram. (In other words rotated in the opposite direction from 3b.) I find this very satisfactory. This way the piano is slightly angled, but does not protrude into the room as much as in 3b. In 3b the corner is essentially wasted, but in my arrangement it isn't.



David-G, thanks for that input! I hadn't thought of that and it's a great idea. I added it as 3c on the chart. That corner is not getting much use right now, so I may get better support from the family, too. Cheers!


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
j&j #2958976 03/20/20 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
I also have placement 2 but if my room matched yours, I’d consider 3b. Just keep a nice distance from the fireplace and any heating or cooling vents. Don’t put yourself or the tail end of the piano in a corner. My priorities in piano placement is a) piano protection (not in direct sunlight, heat or cooling vents 2) how the piano sounds to me from the bench 3) room functionality. It’s not an essay but it can help you decide. Best Wishes!

Excellent essays don't have to be long! Thanks for these very succinct and sensibly ordered criteria.

May I ask, why do you recommend the pianist not be in the corner? I find this one is hard to reconcile with the advice to look into the room... Thank you!


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
gwing #2958977 03/20/20 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gwing
Another vote for #2

Thanks. 2 is definitely winning. smile


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
astrotoy #2958980 03/20/20 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by astrotoy
With house concerts, do you want people to see the keyboard when you are playing like many of the audience do in a regular concert (we always sit on the keyboard side). That will eliminate several of the positions.


Thank you for that intervention! I have actually been agonizing a lot about that, as I was developing the options, because I am SO used to that performance formation. In the end, though, I think it will be one of many considerations, and probably not the top ones in this case. My daughter last night reminded me that my audience is not likely to be professional musicians with a huge interest or benefit in looking at performers' fingers, and family use and my practicing will far outweigh the number of hours spent on concerts. Nevertheless, a weight off my shoulder to have someone else mention it. Thanks!


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2958984 03/20/20 02:53 PM
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I would do something between 1 and 2, an place a statue or sculpture in the corner as an acoustic trap.

Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2958985 03/20/20 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Soojin
Originally Posted by gwing
Another vote for #2

Thanks. 2 is definitely winning. smile


Another vote for 2, perhaps modified by a slight counter-clockwise turn of the piano, i.e., the tail slightly further from the fireplace (though it is not used) and turned so the tail is slightly more towards the corner.

Regards,


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
ShiroKuro #2958987 03/20/20 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
I would vote for 1c or 2, but not the options that start with 3. Here are my thoughts.

I originally had something closer to your options for 3, and the sound was not so great. I had my piano (Yamaha C2, 5'8") moved and the placement is now fairly close to your 1c. My room is a little smaller than yours, but so is my piano, so it seems like a similar set up would work well for you.

In my experience, it is very nice to sit at the keyboard and have the room extend out to your right. This is both aesthetically and acoustically. Acoustically, I was amazed at the sound when I had the piano moved, it is 100 times better! I have a door similar to where your door is, and I believe that helps a lot with the sound.

Aesthetically, the room looks lovely when you enter it and the piano is on the opposite end. Also, it's more conducive to having piano parties and an audience in that arrangement.

One other thing I would add. Make sure that you can walk all the way around the piano. In other words, don't push it too close to any walls or those french doors. I have a window on the straight side of my piano, and I can slide around behind the piano to change the direction of the blinds or open and close the drapes. You will want enough space to do the same with those doors.

Lastly, on the keyboard side, make sure you have enough space to move the bench out from the keyboard, and also to pull out the action in case you want some regulation or other work done (which you may at some point).

If you like, later I'll measure to tell you the space I have on all three sides of my piano.


ShiroKuro, Thank you so much for taking the time to share these very thoughtful points, many of which I had not thought of. I will make sure to leave enough space to move around and to allow for regulations!!

Just to confirm, is your room also rectangular like mine? Again, without knowing much about the physics of piano sound, I wonder if it's because most of the sound travels to the right of piano, so in 3 formation, you only benefit from the narrower side of the rectangle, while in 1 or 2 formations, the sound can project using the longer side of the rectangle (helped by the windows)... Grasping at straws here...

Some say it's good to have the left/base side by a wall because bass' longer sound waves don't get absorbed by the walls as much) while others say to avoid putting the piano by any wall and put it at an angle (like 2)....


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2958994 03/20/20 03:14 PM
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My room is rectangular like yours. I have some plans that I made when trying to decide my piano positioning, and also some before/after photos, I'll post those here in a few minutes.


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2958996 03/20/20 03:16 PM
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Piano dealers do have hand sanitizer's at the door.
If you phone and make an appointment they will disinfect the keys
of the brands/models you may want to try. (do no try too many pianos )

Take your own bar of soap with you .When you have tried the pianos
use the hand sanitizer at the door when you leave.If you are still
nervous go to the washroom wash your hands with soap.
Open the washroom door with a a few tissues.If you accidentally touch
the door use hand sanitizer again.
Leave the store and go home.I would not use the busses as transport.
I am not asking people to be irresponsible by just going anywhere at the
moment.
Also I do not want the piano dealers to suffer too much during
this whole crisis.
I think even the piano stores are almost empty these days so it is really about
keeping ones hands clean and not touching your face.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 03/20/20 03:19 PM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2959000 03/20/20 03:33 PM
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Lady Bird, I think you might be in the wrong thread? Did you mean to post this in the COVID thread?


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2959006 03/20/20 03:43 PM
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Apart from asking about where to place the piano the OP
mentioned that it was not possible now to buy a piano
now because of the COVID 19 virus., I thought I would just
mention that if one follows safe procedures one can buy
a piano now even though there is more to careful about.
One can visit a piano dealer if one does it properly.

Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2959008 03/20/20 03:50 PM
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Ok Soojin, here are my before and after pics. I don't know how helpful these photos are, but anyway!

Also, I forgot (?? somehow??) that I actually have three doors in this room (one is the front door, which is always closed, the other is a doorway into a hallway and the third is a doorway that opens to the family room. Other than the front door, all are without actual doors). I'm sure these doorways have an impact on the acoustics as well.

One more thing... The way I took these photos, you can't really see the other half (non-piano side) of the room. So the photos really only show half of the room... Ok, enough excuses! whome

What I started with:
[Linked Image]

Notice how close the piano's straight side is to the wall.
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.
What I ended up with:
[Linked Image]

It's a little confusing because in the photos, I'm standing on the side where the doorway to the hall is, so the photos are flipped compared to the floor plan.

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You can't really tell, but I can walk all the way around the piano, which is good for cleaning, accessing the window, and also if I change or add artwork back there.

Also, the piano's action can be pulled completely out because there's enough room on the keyboard side as well.

Also, you don't actually need all the "after" photos, but my brain is not telling me which ones to delete, so I'll leave them all up! :P

ETA: when I do piano parties, I move those chairs a little bit, and there is a fair amount of room for an "audience." Because your room is bigger, you would have even more room. I don't like the diagonal layout as much because it's not as conducive to an audience, in my opinion.

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 03/20/20 03:51 PM.

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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2959012 03/20/20 04:09 PM
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When I was a kid, I had a medium grand in 3c or 7 alignment. To be fair, there was an open entry at the left of where your fireplace is, and the overall room was perhaps a tad larger. Having the big entry behind the pianist (opening into the front hall) probably made the bass less likely to pile up in the corner. That said, the rhythm of your traffic in and out of the room might also make a difference.

Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Soojin #2959014 03/20/20 04:11 PM
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I should add, when I had my piano positioned as in the floor plan marked #10, when I had people over to play for them, I ended having to sit with my back to everyone, and I really hated that. Just for further food for thought.


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Re: Where in my living room would my grand piano be happiest?
Hakki #2959017 03/20/20 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by Soojin
Originally Posted by Hakki
Placement 2. And maybe a little bit more into the room.

Thanks for the vote. Would you please be able to explain the reasoning behind the recommendation? Thanks!


https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/how-to-make-a-piano-room-sound-grand/



Thank you for the thorough explanation - the article had really good ideas.


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