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To make the alternative work, the Nocturne scores would first need to be shredded. And to make maters worse, the average fussy cat would probably only accept the originals. Fortunately our last kitty was an outdoor cat, so she never had the opportunity. However, when we'd let her into the house she did seem to enjoy my piano playing. Let's just hope that people don't start panic-buying cat litter. Anything is possible .
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I felt flattered when I once got a (sort of nice) review in the newspaper, until I thought for a sec and realized what kind of stuff it was going to be used for.
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I am more interested in vocal music than piano when listening or going to concert, so that creates a bias. Thats why I prefer Haendel and Verdi to Bach. Eh? Bach's vocal music is probably the single greatest body of work in music history. That is certainly the opinion of many (majority ?) people, but it is not mine and then personal preferences and various criteria comes into play. That is why i avoid ranking composers. Bach vocal music is actually more instrumental like, abstract and internalized, Handel is more overtly melodic, dramatic and sensuous. Then Bach never composed operas and I prefer the dramatic italian style to the more severe north german passions and motets of Bach (though I also listen to them also). I think each composer has specific skills and each person is more sensitive to a certain style. And then there are so many outstanding vocal compositions before and after Bach, that I think Bach is too overated, just like there are worshippers of other composers, which does not mean that his compositions are not of the highest level.
Blüthner model 6
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton#Early_life" ... Soon after Newton had obtained his BA degree in August 1665, the university temporarily closed as a precaution against the Great Plague. Although he had been undistinguished as a Cambridge student,[16] Newton's private studies at his home in Woolsthorpe over the subsequent two years saw the development of his theories on calculus,[17] optics, and the law of gravitation. In April 1667, he returned to Cambridge and in October was elected as a fellow of Trinity."
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I am more interested in vocal music than piano when listening or going to concert, so that creates a bias. Thats why I prefer Haendel and Verdi to Bach. Eh? Bach's vocal music is probably the single greatest body of work in music history. That is certainly the opinion of many (majority ?) people, but it is not mine and then personal preferences and various criteria comes into play. That is why i avoid ranking composers. Bach vocal music is actually more instrumental like, abstract and internalized, Handel is more overtly melodic, dramatic and sensuous. Then Bach never composed operas and I prefer the dramatic italian style to the more severe north german passions and motets of Bach (though I also listen to them also). I think each composer has specific skills and each person is more sensitive to a certain style. And then there are so many outstanding vocal compositions before and after Bach, that I think Bach is too overated, just like there are worshippers of other composers, which does not mean that his compositions are not of the highest level. Overrated or not, the vast majority of Bach's vocal/choral compositions are religious in nature in addition to being of the highest quality. None of Bach's contemporaries (with perhaps the exception of Handel in some instances) were able to match his achievement. In college I had the opportunity to sing two motets and the entire B Minor Mass under the guidance of a gifted conductor - and those were among the most meaningful performance experiences of my life. Here's one example......sung A cappella and by memory by a chorus of fifty. Love the fugal sections. Bach Motet - Singet dem Herrn ein neues Lied. https://youtu.be/PfDvr5m0An8But I agree - we are all different in our musical likes and dislikes.
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I suppose that it is not surprising, given that this is a pianist forum, that Chopin is rated very highly and Rachmaninov not so much. Personally, I would rate them about even. As far as piano music goes, Chopin is perhaps a bit better mostly because he was at the leading edge of the Romantic period and Rachmaninov was at the trailing edge. Chopin is seen as a great innovator with a huge influence, while Rachmaninov is seen as taking an incremental step from Tchaikovsky. However, Rachmaninov was superior at orchestral composing. While his compositions may not seem innovative, at least they are well crafted. It seems like Chopin was in a little over his head when it came to composing for orchestra.
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Overrated or not, the vast majority of Bach's vocal/choral compositions are religious in nature in addition to being of the highest quality. None of Bach's contemporaries (with perhaps the exception of Handel in some instances) were able to match his achievement. In college I had the opportunity to sing two motets and the entire B Minor Mass under the guidance of a gifted conductor - and those were among the most meaningful performance experiences of my life. Here's one example......sung A cappella and by memory by a chorus of fifty. Love the fugal sections.
In college, I remember studying the cantatas. Such jaw-dropping music. We sang a lot of Bach in the choir as well. If they ever perform a post mortem on me, I'm sure they'll find the Actus Tragicus imprinted somewhere in my brain, I listened to it so many times.
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Overrated or not, the vast majority of Bach's vocal/choral compositions are religious in nature in addition to being of the highest quality. None of Bach's contemporaries (with perhaps the exception of Handel in some instances) were able to match his achievement. In college I had the opportunity to sing two motets and the entire B Minor Mass under the guidance of a gifted conductor - and those were among the most meaningful performance experiences of my life. Here's one example......sung A cappella and by memory by a chorus of fifty. Love the fugal sections.
In college, I remember studying the cantatas. Such jaw-dropping music. We sang a lot of Bach in the choir as well. If they ever perform a post mortem on me, I'm sure they'll find the Actus Tragicus imprinted somewhere in my brain, I listened to it so many times. And thank YOU Johnstaf for introducing me to this gorgeous cantata today - which apparently was composed when Bach was only 22. !!!!!
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It is difficult to rank composers without letting subjective preferences creep in. I am fairly confident I would not change my top 20 list above, but beyond that, things get squishy.
I think I am the only person who mentioned Verdi and Dvorak in this thread, but I think the case for them being in the top 20 is strong.
Bach may be overrated, but it is not an accident. It is because his overall achievement does exceed that of other composers.
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I think I am the only person who mentioned Verdi and Dvorak in this thread, but I think the case for them being in the top 20 is strong. I'd say Verdi's case is greater. I actually mentioned him, as a composer that I don't know well enough to include but who I realized many who do know him would include. I know him better than most who don't know him ....because my college's chorus did his Requiem, and I was at several of their rehearsals and played one of its movements with them for my audition to be their accompanist for the next couple of years. But that's not enough to 'know' a composer, is it.... I just don't have a feel for his body of work.
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I think trying to order composers precisely is futile, but here is my top-20 list in chronological order:
Bach Handel Haydn Mozart Beethoven Schubert Mendelssohn Chopin Schumann Wagner Verdi Brahms Dvorak Tchaikovsky Mahler Sibelius Debussy Ravel Bartok Stravinsky —————
The remaining 1st tier composers, in approximate chronological order:
Schutz Monteverdi Buxtehude Corelli Pachelbel Telemann Rameau Scarlatti Liszt Grieg Saint-Saens Smetana Puccini Bruckner Shostakovich Prokofiev Rachmaninov Scriabin
I tried to synthesize contributions to music and aesthetics in some qualitative, imperfect way. I‘m sure there will be quibbles with my choices. The impact of Rameau’s publication of “Treatise on Harmony” in 1722 assured his place on one of my two lists.
I would agree with Mark that Verdi's case is greater than Dvorak's. Overall I'd say your top 20 list is solid - but I would personally switch Prokofiev with Sibelius.
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And thank YOU Johnstaf for introducing me to this gorgeous cantata today - which apparently was composed when Bach was only 22. !!!!! If like me you still listen to music on CDs, I'd suggest getting one of several available box sets of the complete cantatas (I have the Rilling set). I haven't heard a weak one yet. And that's not counting the Magnificat, the B Minor Mass and the two surviving Passions (which I also have in a smaller set). "Overrated" my a**.
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And thank YOU Johnstaf for introducing me to this gorgeous cantata today - which apparently was composed when Bach was only 22. !!!!! If like me you still listen to music on CDs, I'd suggest getting one of several available box sets of the complete cantatas (I have the Rilling set). I haven't heard a weak one yet. And that's not counting the Magnificat, the B Minor Mass and the two surviving Passions (which I also have in a smaller set). "Overrated" my a**. Great idea - thanks! Not only do I still prefer to listen to CDs - but I'm methodically expanding my classical LP collection as well. Its amazing how many pristine, high quality classical recordings (CDs and LPs) can be found at the local Goodwill - sometimes in the original unopened plastic wrappers.
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And thank YOU Johnstaf for introducing me to this gorgeous cantata today - which apparently was composed when Bach was only 22. !!!!! If like me you still listen to music on CDs, I'd suggest getting one of several available box sets of the complete cantatas (I have the Rilling set). I haven't heard a weak one yet. And that's not counting the Magnificat, the B Minor Mass and the two surviving Passions (which I also have in a smaller set). "Overrated" my a**. I have heard Rilling conduct the Bm Mass, St Matthew Passion, Magnificat, and numerous cantatas live—nothing short of sublime.
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I think trying to order composers precisely is futile, but here is my top-20 list in chronological order:
Bach Handel Haydn Mozart Beethoven Schubert Mendelssohn Chopin Schumann Wagner Verdi Brahms Dvorak Tchaikovsky Mahler Sibelius Debussy Ravel Bartok Stravinsky —————
I would agree with Mark that Verdi's case is greater than Dvorak's. Overall I'd say your top 20 list is solid - but I would personally switch Prokofiev with Sibelius. That’s fair. I originally made this list of top 20 for myself in response to a controversial NYTimes piece ranking the top 10 composers. I originally had Prokofiev and Shostakovich instead of Dvorak and Sibelius. What caused me to drop Prokofiev was his not being born until 1891, 10 years after Bartok and 9 years after Stravinsky. While I love Prokofiev’s orchestral music, this knocked him down a little bit in my mind based on originality measures. I replaced him with Sibelius due to the latter’s popularity— among the most played composers on classical radio. Perhaps I should drop Sibelius and just have a top-19. What led me to revisit Dvorak’s music were some very favorable comments I read that were from Brahms. Dvorak’s melodic form and content are superlative, evoking comparisons with Schubert, Chopin, and Tchaikovsky for me with respect to melodic strength when I listen to his music.
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I think trying to order composers precisely is futile, but here is my top-20 list in chronological order:
Bach Handel Haydn Mozart Beethoven Schubert Mendelssohn Chopin Schumann Wagner Verdi Brahms Dvorak Tchaikovsky Mahler Sibelius Debussy Ravel Bartok Stravinsky —————
I would agree with Mark that Verdi's case is greater than Dvorak's. Overall I'd say your top 20 list is solid - but I would personally switch Prokofiev with Sibelius. That’s fair. I originally made this list of top 20 for myself in response to a controversial NYTimes piece ranking the top 10 composers. I originally had Prokofiev and Shostakovich instead of Dvorak and Sibelius. What caused me to drop Prokofiev was his not being born until 1891, 10 years after Bartok and 9 years after Stravinsky. While I love Prokofiev’s orchestral music, this knocked him down a little bit in my mind based on originality measures. I replaced him with Sibelius due to the latter’s popularity— among the most played composers on classical radio. Perhaps I should drop Sibelius and just have a top-19. What led me to revisit Dvorak’s music were some very favorable comments I read that were from Brahms. Dvorak’s melodic form and content are superlative, evoking comparisons with Schubert, Chopin, and Tchaikovsky for me with respect to melodic strength when I listen to his music. I appreciate the further explanation as well as your thought process. Makes good sense. It seems the most frequently played Sibelius works on classical FM stations are "Finlandia" and "Valse Triste" - which gets old over time.
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I hear the symphonies and violin concerto also. In any case, Sibelius was the composer on my list I was least committed to. Perhaps my original thought of Shostakovich is right, though these exercises are unimportant. They are useful to hear other’s ideas and sometimes revisit a composer we may have neglected.
Re: Bach, I once heard one of two recitals that were covering the complete cycle of unaccompanied cello suites performed in a stone church built when one of the pieces was composed. It was a smaller church, so a moderately intimate setting but with a good reverb. I left completely stunned, feeling like there could be no other composer whose music would have created what I experienced.
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I hear the symphonies and violin concerto also. In any case, Sibelius was the composer on my list I was least committed to. Perhaps my original thought of Shostakovich is right, though these exercises are unimportant. They are useful to hear other’s ideas and sometimes revisit a composer we may have neglected.
Re: Bach, I once heard one of two recitals that were covering the complete cycle of unaccompanied cello suites performed in a stone church built when one of the pieces was composed. It was a smaller church, so a moderately intimate setting but with a good reverb. I left completely stunned, feeling like there could be no other composer whose music would have created what I experienced. Quite honestly, I don't believe I've heard the Violin Concerto. I'm only familiar with two of the seven symphonies - so there's another opportunity.to expand my horizons. Thanks for sharing your experience with the cello suites.
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[...]It seems the most frequently played Sibelius works on classical FM stations are "Finlandia" and "Valse Triste" - which gets old over time. Carey: That doesn't really surprise me. In my listening experience to "classical music stations" so many of them - too many of them, for my taste - play only "popular" works from the classical repertoire. At certain times of the day, not even complete works are played; it's one movement from this symphony, one movement from this Sonata, one aria from ... well, you get the idea. It's all background music for those who aren't really listening. That's why, more and more, I don't listen to "classical radio." That said, I am pleased to have found some classical radio stations on a couple of streaming services that I have that don't shy away from playing complete works and that will often include less-known works as well. It's a refreshing change from the "burger with fries" of - what shall I call them? - "popular classical music stations." Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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I have heard Rilling conduct the Bm Mass, St Matthew Passion, Magnificat, and numerous cantatas live—nothing short of sublime. Lucky you! I've always thought Rilling is a good "middle ground" between the overblown Romanticized approach and the (imo) sometimes too-thin HIP style. His recorded conducting is pretty much my reference point.
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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