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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
gingko2 #2943830 02/07/20 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by gingko2

I had figured I’d be looking many months for an affordable used/rebuilt Baldwin or M &H, wouldn’t have minded a used Estonia, either (great piano j&j). I feel I was just lucky to find the Hailun.


Thank you. I’m really glad you found the right piano in the Hailun. I’ve always heard good things about the brand. A well built affordable piano is always welcome news.


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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2944084 02/07/20 09:21 PM
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Oh an Estonia!!! I have never had the pleasure. I did have the pleasure playing a steinway concerto grand worth 250,000. I felt like Horowitz for a moment! How do I post a picture on here i must show the steinway

Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2944221 02/08/20 09:56 AM
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Here’s a link to show you how to post pictures: How to post pictures

It took me a couple tries to get it down.


J & J
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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2955750 03/09/20 01:29 PM
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Hey everyone. Still waiting for my HAILUN... she keeps dropping the price but will not accept my $5000 offer.... YET (i have a picture of her on my wall, im willing this piano to be mine!) So i will continue to wait. In the meantime, I have found an upright Essex for sale ($4000 asking super good deal) pretty much new maybe 2 years old. Whats everyones opinions on HAILUN grand vs an upright essex? i know it depends on sound and feel, and I will determine that in a couple days when i go to play the Essex. But i have played Essex before and they are wonderful just not this particular one. I have space for grand, but thats all i have space for, (there goes the dinning room set - but really who cares when you have a grand in the living room anyways) the upright would be an easy re-sell as Essex is part of the Steinway brand. Just looking for some pros cons to the two....and what some of your recommendations would be?? They both have so many good points its a tough call

Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2955754 03/09/20 01:42 PM
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Also want to note, I would need something that would stay keep up with me in the long run. Not sure if the essex is a starter or intermediate?
Finally going to take my grade 8 exam i was in the middle of taking 22 years ago when i decided moving out and not continuing with piano was way cooler. I am looking to continue to teach piano and possibly somehow go to school and get my music degree in between working 2 jobs. Dream big right?

Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2955775 03/09/20 03:06 PM
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Which Essex? There are 4 different sizes of Essex upright piano.

I don't think they're going to accept a $5k offer for the Hailun 178 grand. That piano's probably worth $10-12k, depending on if it's being sold as a private party vs. a dealer with a warranty. If they'd take $5-6k, heck, I'd probably buy it, clean it up, regulate and voice it, and then try and flip it for $10k!


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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
terminaldegree #2955778 03/09/20 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Which Essex? There are 4 different sizes of Essex upright piano.

I don't think they're going to accept a $5k offer for the Hailun 178 grand. That piano's probably worth $10-12k, depending on if it's being sold as a private party vs. a dealer with a warranty. If they'd take $5-6k, heck, I'd probably buy it, clean it up, regulate and voice it, and then try and flip it for $10k!

+1 thumb

Personally I’d up my bid for the Hailun 178. Id take a Hailun grand any day over an Essex upright. Just my 2 cents.


J & J
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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2955790 03/09/20 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
+1 thumb

Personally I’d up my bid for the Hailun 178. Id take a Hailun grand any day over an Essex upright. Just my 2 cents.

+2 thumb smile

Rick


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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Rickster #2955946 03/10/20 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by j&j
+1 thumb

Personally I’d up my bid for the Hailun 178. Id take a Hailun grand any day over an Essex upright. Just my 2 cents.

+2 thumb smile

Rick

+3 thumb smile

I'd also caution against pushing this deal too hard. By setting a limit of $5000, which let's face it, is a completely arbitrary round number, you might do yourself out of the deal. Sometimes sellers will be offended by your lack of negotiation and just stop entertaining your offer on principle. I think $5000 is a little stingy to be honest. I think you need to come up a little to make it a fair deal for both parties. Maybe let the seller know you are willing to negotiate, and be prepared to come up to $6000 to get it done, but it might be more like $5,500. The reality is, when people really want something, they find the money to pay a modest amount more. I think you'll regret it if you let this one go over something less than a thousand dollars. And it's always possible somebody could sneak in and grab it from under your nose. I know I would! Life's too short.

Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2955951 03/10/20 04:03 AM
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I would agree to negotiate the Halliun... but not &5500. An extra $500 is not reasonable as a counteroffer, IMHO. If you know the seller wants 8,000, try to offer $7000.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2956019 03/10/20 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ando
I'd also caution against pushing this deal too hard. By setting a limit of $5000, which let's face it, is a completely arbitrary round number, you might do yourself out of the deal. Sometimes sellers will be offended by your lack of negotiation and just stop entertaining your offer on principle.

Yes, this can happen. If a seller is offended, and they are not hurting for money, they can pick and choose whose offer they accept, or calls/texts to which they reply.

For example, I saw it once on the TV show "American Pickers", with Mike Wolfe and Frank Fritz. On the episode, this older gentleman (like me:-) had a lot of old stuff Mike and Frank were really interested in. Mike made a low-ball offer on something, (forgot what it was) and the old gentleman clammed up and wouldn't even respond or talk to them.

Mike made the statement that he thought they had lost him... the old guy who owned all the stuff. They ticked him off, and he didn't want to sell them anything... he didn't need to; and, on a popular, nationally broadcast Reality TV show! smile

Another example... I worked with a guy at the tech college who wanted to buy a used trampoline for his children. He went to look at one for sale, and made the lady an offer less than her asking price. He said the lady started crying when he offered the lower price, which she didn't accept. So, he said thank you and left.

The next day, he said he called the lady back and told her he would pay her asking price for the trampoline. He said she told him she would not sell him the trampoline at any price and hung up the phone. Ouch!! smile

Most people are usually rational when it comes to negotiations, but sometimes feelings are rattled a little... or a lot?

Sorry for the OT, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee, and I'm old and retired... smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2956022 03/10/20 10:47 AM
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I sold a home recently. The potential buyer wrote the contract for 25% less which was outrageous as the listing price was at fair market value. According to their agent, that was all they could afford

When I declined the offer, I write on the bottom
‘Only a full price counter offer will be considered from this buyer’.

Be careful with what you do. That is why I would not offer $500 more in your initial offer. That does not demonstrate a willingness to negotiate when you were $3000 off the sellers minimum And the price was fair


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Rickster #2956044 03/10/20 11:42 AM
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I’m gonna add to Rick’s story. Years ago we were house shopping. Our realtor took us to a house that still had the lockbox attached. We were checking the kitchen and foyer area when suddenly on older man walked in very upset. He was telling us very firmly the house was no longer for sale and to get out, now! We left in a big hurry. I was giving our realtor the “hairy eyeball” asking her what happened? The house was built by the owner himself and he took great pride in his handiwork. The first offer he received was a low ball, or what the owner considered was low ball, and he was so insulted and upset he immediately pulled the house off the market. I was annoyed going through that experience but I least I didn’t waste my time making an offer on that house because for that seller there was no negotiation possible. I myself enjoy “the dance”. That’s why I watch American Pickers and Pawn Stars. If you think Mike and Frank lowball, they have nothing on Big Hoss and Rick!

Okay, back to the subject. Unless a seller absolutely needs cash now, going in too low doesn’t work. Make a fair offer and give them your contact info, in case they change their minds.


J & J
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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2956065 03/10/20 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
I myself enjoy “the dance”. That’s why I watch American Pickers and Pawn Stars. If you think Mike and Frank lowball, they have nothing on Big Hoss and Rick!

Continuing the discussions about price negotiations and offers (pianos and other:-), I like to watch Pawn Stars too, although it is as much entertainment as it is reality TV. And, it may be because it's on national TV, and perhaps not really reality in the real world, but I've seen Rick Harrison on Pawn Stars get the experts to evaluate and appraise an item brought in by a customer to sell... Rick always asks the customer how much they want for the item (although he rarely pays that price).

If the item appraises for way more than the customer wants, because they honestly don't know the real value of the item, Rick will make a higher offer, and sometimes a much higher offer, way above what the seller originally wanted.

Again, that may be part of the show, but it is certainly high class and high character in the real world not to take advantage of a seller like that. But when it comes to real pawn shops, I think a lot of sellers are taken advantage of. But such is life in the real world.

Personally, I think if someone offers a really low-ball price on something you have for sale, there is no need to get upset, just say no thank you. It is a lot less stress. smile

In the real world, something is worth what a buyer is willing to pay, and a seller is willing to sell for...

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Rickster #2956072 03/10/20 01:19 PM
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Rick - agreed. A person who makes their living as a pawn broker, always low balls because that’s the business. They are “lending” money to people down on their luck who have a terrible credit rating and can’t get money any other way. Well, maybe selling plasma.

I also learned not to get emotional in negotiations. Good negotiators use the same sense that poker players use. They can read faces and voices.

Again if I were the OP I’d up my bid to much closer to the asking price of the Hailun and be thrilled with the nice grand I purchased at a good price.


J & J
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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2956486 03/11/20 06:37 PM
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I'll stay out of the negotiations, but we've sold several used Hailun 178's for more than $10k the second time around. The transferable warranty is beneficial and comforting, but the issue you felt is more likely to come under regular maintenance than a warrantable defect. Every 4-5 years, most pianos are due for regulation. It's completely reasonable that service will sort out the repetition. We continue to get great feedback from our Hailun customers.

Knowing Hailun grands, there are 2 areas I would also look at that may be limiting the repetition. We've had a few where the jacks were "frozen" (they move, but have more friction than spec) and easily fixed with lubrication or repinning as necessary. That one aspect might fall under warranty, but the fix is commonly part of general regulation steps, and the jack friction is not always inspected.

The other area that we used to see was friction in the damper guide rails. The old fix was to re-bush the guide rails, but we've found a much more simple fix to use Pro-felt bushing treatment to re-size the bushings. We began to do this service on new Hailun grands as a preventative measure. I offer these as tips for the tech that works on the piano...places to look in addition to normal regulation.


Sam Bennett
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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Pottsy #2956494 03/11/20 07:26 PM
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There's a soap opera type series on Netflix, "Greenleaf," in which a D.H. Baldwin baby grand in gleaming white (!) is used at two separate sites (same piano, or two pianos?), and the producer has gone to no pains to hide the logo on the fallboard. In fact there are moments when the piano is not the focus of the scene, yet the logo is clearly legible. This seems contrary to tradition when it comes to branding pianos on TV.

With one exception, there is no way that I can tell whether or not the sound of the piano is from the piano in the scene or from a studio recording. In the exception, one of the characters is simply playing a few random notes in the mid-upper register of the piano.

Regards,


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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
dogperson #2956529 03/11/20 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
I sold a home recently. The potential buyer wrote the contract for 25% less which was outrageous as the listing price was at fair market value. According to their agent, that was all they could afford

When I declined the offer, I write on the bottom
‘Only a full price counter offer will be considered from this buyer’.

Be careful with what you do. That is why I would not offer $500 more in your initial offer. That does not demonstrate a willingness to negotiate when you were $3000 off the sellers minimum And the price was fair


I'm sure the buyer bought another house, so what is the difference to them?

If someone makes me an offer, I know that they are interested in buying. I take that knowledge and try to work with it. How can an offer be a bad thing if you are selling? Ive never understood why people can get offended about an offer. Now if someone keeps hounding you and becomes aggravating, that's different.

Perhaps they loved your house but they really couldn't afford it, so they did the best they could. How would that be outrageous?

The woman has the piano in a vacant apartment, so she needs it gone. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. So far, no one has paid her price.


Last edited by Jack Moody; 03/11/20 11:21 PM.
Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
Jack Moody #2956533 03/11/20 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Moody
Originally Posted by dogperson
I sold a home recently. The potential buyer wrote the contract for 25% less which was outrageous as the listing price was at fair market value. According to their agent, that was all they could afford

When I declined the offer, I write on the bottom
‘Only a full price counter offer will be considered from this buyer’.

Be careful with what you do. That is why I would not offer $500 more in your initial offer. That does not demonstrate a willingness to negotiate when you were $3000 off the sellers minimum And the price was fair


I'm sure the buyer bought another house, so what is the difference to them?

If someone makes me an offer, I know that they are interested in buying. I take that knowledge and try to work with it. How can an offer be a bad thing if you are selling? Ive never understood why people can get offended about an offer. Now if someone keeps hounding you and becomes aggravating, that's different.

Perhaps they loved your house but they really couldn't afford it, so they did the best they could. How would that be outrageous?

The woman has the piano in a vacant apartment, so she needs it gone. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. So far, no one has paid her price.



It was written as maybe a helpful anecdote to the OP. I have no motivation to explain or justify my position. If you feel like this feeling was unreasonable, then ‘oh, well’.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Re: DH Baldwin/ Hailun Grand 178
dogperson #2956543 03/12/20 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Jack Moody
Originally Posted by dogperson
I sold a home recently. The potential buyer wrote the contract for 25% less which was outrageous as the listing price was at fair market value. According to their agent, that was all they could afford

When I declined the offer, I write on the bottom
‘Only a full price counter offer will be considered from this buyer’.

Be careful with what you do. That is why I would not offer $500 more in your initial offer. That does not demonstrate a willingness to negotiate when you were $3000 off the sellers minimum And the price was fair


I'm sure the buyer bought another house, so what is the difference to them?

If someone makes me an offer, I know that they are interested in buying. I take that knowledge and try to work with it. How can an offer be a bad thing if you are selling? Ive never understood why people can get offended about an offer. Now if someone keeps hounding you and becomes aggravating, that's different.

Perhaps they loved your house but they really couldn't afford it, so they did the best they could. How would that be outrageous?

The woman has the piano in a vacant apartment, so she needs it gone. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. So far, no one has paid her price.



It was written as maybe a helpful anecdote to the OP. I have no motivation to explain or justify my position. If you feel like this feeling was unreasonable, then ‘oh, well’.


Come on, its not like I interrupted a private conversation.

I see that you are offended. All of my words were meant literally.

I'm not under the illusion that you are subservient to me, if that's your concern.

My point was that you didnt really hurt the buyers or at least that's my view of the world. New deals and opportunities come along everyday. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

I agree with you that she is more likely to get it if she offers more. In retrospect, I also respect your thoughts that the piano is "a fair deal" from the start. I just think there may be opportunity for an exceptional deal. If the OP "really wants" that particular piano, then your advice is likely better than mine. Most importantly, I love dogs.

If I'm not mistaken, you've been polite to me on other occasions, so I'm sorry if I upset you. I don't want to make anyone mad.

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