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Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953240 03/01/20 11:20 AM
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The big dealer in Vancouver are very well known.
These are huge dealers and they are authorized dealers
of Fazioli, Grotrian, Seiler (both SE and ED models )
AND Bechstein.
They usually have grands of Bechstein .So I do not know
where you heard that they do not carry Bechstein grands
because is is not true.
They have at lest two branches .One in Vancouver and
one in Richmond. Obviously huge floorspace in thier stores.
Of course the manager has been to the factory in Germany
a few times times.
BEFORE I bought my piano I was in discussion with him ,because
I was looking for an upright piano.I thought of the 124 Elegance
(concert )The Concert 8 being too high in price.
I ultimately found a Sauter piano I love somewhere else.
When we discussed the Academy series, he said it was German
made, but he NEVER stressed a 100% German made.The manager
knows me as a piano teacher who was quite aware of a few facts of
of European piano making. He mentioned the two huge factories in
Germany and the Czech Republic. He also mentioned something about
some of the process's of which we are talking with regard to the Academy
series. I cannot say the 100% made in Germany was mentioned .,
especially when talking about Bechstein Academy series ,(we were talking
about where parts were made ) I played the Academy series 124 and the
Concert 8. (too expensive! ) which was the best upright I have ever played.
The Academy series is on a high level but it does have its limitations .
The Elegance 124 Concert model was not in stock so I would have had to
order the piano without playing it .Not something I could do.

Brand Profiles, from PIANO BUYER ,mentions that Bechstein is
"not totally revealing about where parts come from" for thier pianos.
which is fine ,as long as the main process's are done in Germany ,
and the pianos are made there TOTALLY .
The Concert series uprights and grands are graded as great instruments,
even the Academy grands have a great deal of respect.
The Academy uprights seem much less appreciated by people here.
Some of this may be because of rumour ?
So the question of Made in Germany becomes MORE important .,
Is part of the Instrument strung back in the Czech Republic or even
perhaps in China ?
Then one has to consider whether the Academy grands receive so
much respect just because they are grands ,and now marked C Bechstein ?





Last edited by Lady Bird; 03/01/20 11:22 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953264 03/01/20 01:28 PM
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I may sound like a broken record, but any instrument, be it grand or upright that has Bechstein or C. Bechstein on the fallboard, is manufactured in the Seifhennersdorf factory in Germany.

Our second factory is in Hradec Kralove and the instruments by any line of the W. Hoffmann brand are manufactured there and that goes for all the parts of the acoustic assembly. Just as with Bechstein, keyboards and actions are supplied by Kluge and Renner, with our own modifications done in both factories.

It is the Zimmermann brand that has an acoustic assembly and action made in China and the final assembly is done in the Czech Republic factory. There is no parts compatibility between the Chinese manufactured instruments and the European instruments.

I can't do anything about weird rumors and I leave the statements and hope they are sufficiently satisfying for anyone interested in piano making.

Bechstein has constantly improved its production processes and by now has reached an in-house production depth that is quite remarkable. We are the only manufacturer in Europe that has an in-house production line to manufacture its own hammerheads. We exceed the legal requirements for the 'Made in Germany' industrial label that has a good reputation and stands for the highest standards in production and quality assurance.

I cannot help it when some people insinuate that the above statements are not true or misleading. We offer everyone interested in our products the opportunity to visit our manufacturing sites and they speak for themselves.

I hope that clarifies things.

Last edited by OE1FEU; 03/01/20 01:29 PM.
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953318 03/01/20 04:50 PM
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Quote
I may sound like a broken record, but any instrument, be it grand or upright that has Bechstein or C. Bechstein on the fallboard, is manufactured in the Seifhennersdorf factory in Germany.

Our second factory is in Hradec Kralove and the instruments by any line of the W. Hoffmann brand are manufactured there and that goes for all the parts of the acoustic assembly. Just as with Bechstein, keyboards and actions are supplied by Kluge and Renner, with our own modifications done in both factories.


Not trying to be difficult, but there seems to be a contradiction here.
And why is Bechstein still not certified to receive the "made in Germany" title by the German Piano Manufacturing Association [BVK]
https://www.pianos.de/en/bvk_certificate/

Just asking....

Norbert


Last edited by Norbert; 03/01/20 05:00 PM.

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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953319 03/01/20 04:52 PM
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Thank you,
It is important to hear because if the SMP.price for the Academy 124 is $28,200
it is quite a price to pay and we need to hear about this information.
On the other hand this affects the reputation of even the smallest Academy grand which
is which is over $60,000.

Yet even if one pays $3,000 for a piano they are always entitled to know the truth about a piano
surely ?
I am sorry for being proactive.

Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953325 03/01/20 05:12 PM
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Too bad the documentary "ein Klavier geht um die Welt" doesn't seem to be available anymore. It nicely told the story of what exactly is going on. At least, at the time it was made & published.It was originally shown on German TV, then mysteriously disappeared shortly after. Wondering why.
Good, if someone can still dig it up.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 03/01/20 05:18 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953335 03/01/20 05:50 PM
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OE1FEU,
Much appreciate you taking the time to provide information regarding the Bechsteins. They are truly exceptional instruments, including the Academy series.

Rich D.


Retired at the beach

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Norbert #2953337 03/01/20 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
I may sound like a broken record, but any instrument, be it grand or upright that has Bechstein or C. Bechstein on the fallboard, is manufactured in the Seifhennersdorf factory in Germany.

Our second factory is in Hradec Kralove and the instruments by any line of the W. Hoffmann brand are manufactured there and that goes for all the parts of the acoustic assembly. Just as with Bechstein, keyboards and actions are supplied by Kluge and Renner, with our own modifications done in both factories.


Not trying to be difficult, but there seems to be a contradiction here.
And why is Bechstein still not certified to receive the "made in Germany" title by the German Piano Manufacturing Association [BVK]
https://www.pianos.de/en/bvk_certificate/

Just asking....

Norbert



Brands certified by the BVK
https://www.pianos.de/en/bvk_certificate/index.php?id=2

Interesting info from PianoBuyer of the minimum standards for certification
https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/made-in-germany/

Last edited by dogperson; 03/01/20 06:01 PM.

"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Norbert #2953340 03/01/20 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Too bad the documentary "ein Klavier geht um die Welt" doesn't seem to be available anymore. It nicely told the story of what exactly is going on. At least, at the time it was made & published.It was originally shown on German TV, then mysteriously disappeared shortly after. Wondering why.
Good, if someone can still dig it up.

Norbert

Fascinating.

So is it entire firms, or brands that are certified, or individual instruments? I mean, were Bechstein to call the Academy series something other than "C. Bechstein", would the higher-level concert instruments then get the blessing of the Bundesverband?

Last edited by Maestro Lennie; 03/01/20 06:05 PM.
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953343 03/01/20 06:14 PM
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Hamburg Steinway pianos don't carry this mark. They're made in Germany and the models made there would be eligible. Not everyone is interested in joining the club.

Last edited by johnstaf; 03/01/20 06:16 PM.
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
johnstaf #2953348 03/01/20 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Hamburg Steinway pianos don't carry this mark. They're made in Germany and the models made there would be eligible.

What, they're not contaminated by NY influence?

Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Lady Bird #2953349 03/01/20 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Thank you,
It is important to hear because if the SMP.price for the Academy 124 is $28,200
it is quite a price to pay and we need to hear about this information.
On the other hand this affects the reputation of even the smallest Academy grand which
is which is over $60,000.

Yet even if one pays $3,000 for a piano they are always entitled to know the truth about a piano
surely ?
I am sorry for being proactive.


I actually mean't provocative (not proactive )Typo again.

Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953350 03/01/20 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Maestro Lennie
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Hamburg Steinway pianos don't carry this mark. They're made in Germany and the models made there would be eligible.

What, they're not contaminated by NY influence?


It wouldn't make any difference.

Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953351 03/01/20 06:24 PM
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Grotrian use American Steinway made plates BTW (or they did until very recently). They're BVK members.

Last edited by johnstaf; 03/01/20 06:25 PM.
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953352 03/01/20 06:28 PM
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So are Bechstein and Steinway Hamburg just sitting on their checkbooks? Or is there some fraction of labor over the maximum that comes over the border?

Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953356 03/01/20 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Maestro Lennie
So are Bechstein and Steinway Hamburg just sitting on their checkbooks? Or is there some fraction of labor over the maximum that comes over the border?


According to the manufacturers, Bechstein and Hamburg Steinway are made in Germany.

According to a poster who works for Bechstein, they are made in Germany.

It's possible to tour both factories. The steps in the manufacturing process that are carried out there are plain for all to see.


Last edited by johnstaf; 03/01/20 06:42 PM.
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
johnstaf #2953357 03/01/20 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Hamburg Steinway pianos don't carry this mark. They're made in Germany and the models made there would be eligible. Not everyone is interested in joining the club.

I have heard that this is true and there are other lists .Seiler (German made) are on a different list.
Some of the owners of the factory's of some brands on the BVK list are thinking of leaving because
they believe there are competitors who produce instruments made outside of Germany.
Sauter now provides a customer with a certified list of parts all made in Germany including the piano being strung back in Germany only .Signed by Ulrich Sauter and Mr Hott.The pianos also have a brass stamp 100% made in Germany.

Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Lady Bird #2953359 03/01/20 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Hamburg Steinway pianos don't carry this mark. They're made in Germany and the models made there would be eligible. Not everyone is interested in joining the club.

I have heard that this is true and there are other lists .Seiler (German made) are on a different list.
Some of the owners of the factory's of some brands on the BVK list are thinking of leaving because
they believe there are competitors who produce instruments made outside of Germany.
Sauter now provides a customer with a certified list of parts all made in Germany including the piano being strung back in Germany only .Signed by Ulrich Sauter and Mr Hott.The pianos also have a brass stamp 100% made in Germany.


What is the ‘other list’ that Seller is on?


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953361 03/01/20 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Maestro Lennie
Originally Posted by Norbert
Too bad the documentary "ein Klavier geht um die Welt" doesn't seem to be available anymore. It nicely told the story of what exactly is going on. At least, at the time it was made & published.It was originally shown on German TV, then mysteriously disappeared shortly after. Wondering why.
Good, if someone can still dig it up.

Norbert

Fascinating.

So is it entire firms, or brands that are certified, or individual instruments? I mean, were Bechstein to call the Academy series something other than "C. Bechstein", would the higher-level concert instruments then get the blessing of the Bundesverband?

I think even before the Academy series was called CBECHSTEIN ,Bechstein was not on the list.
However I do believe Bechstein pianos (certainly there Concert series)are MADE IN GERMANY.
I think they do have a more pragmatic philosophy, let's face it they are great pianos.
Obviously our poster who works for Bechstein believes even the Academy is made there.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 03/01/20 07:12 PM. Reason: Spelling
Re: German pianos/pianists, US
Maestro Lennie #2953363 03/01/20 07:20 PM
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The trouble is the ignorant poster will.suddenly post something like ---
"One has to pay so much for a European piano, and then they are not even
made there" So a huge false blanket conclusion is just thrown across all
but the most expensive models ,which is ridiculous but which of course
serves some people.

Re: German pianos/pianists, US
dogperson #2953373 03/01/20 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Hamburg Steinway pianos don't carry this mark. They're made in Germany and the models made there would be eligible. Not everyone is interested in joining the club.

I have heard that this is true and there are other lists .Seiler (German made) are on a different list.
Some of the owners of the factory's of some brands on the BVK list are thinking of leaving because
they believe there are competitors who produce instruments made outside of Germany.
Sauter now provides a customer with a certified list of parts all made in Germany including the piano being strung back in Germany only .Signed by Ulrich Sauter and Mr Hott.The pianos also have a brass stamp 100% made in Germany.


What is the ‘other list’ that Seller is on?

I do not know. The manager of the Bechstein, Fazioli, Seiler and Grotrian dealer messaged me and gave me this information. He mentioned another German piano also on this list.I felt it may seem
I was just not trusting him to ask for the name of the list.
He seemed trustworthy and never over exaggerated any of his claims.
We were discussing Bechstein and Grotrian pianos when he told me this.

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