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Joined: Aug 2013
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Leel, I'm glad you found a really good deal on a piano you love. I would consider the vertical pianos on this list to be a couple rungs up from a P2 in touch and tone, for the sake of comparison.[/quote] I agree, but I was still pretty much of a newbie and didn't know if I would continue and improve. But there's always the future... 
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Appreciate all the responses. It seems that the general consensus for that price point is to aim for a good used upright.
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You might be surprised what you can find if you look hard enough! I went the baby grand route a few years ago: http://forums.pianoworld.com/ubbthr...ome-and-thanks-everyone.html#Post2161515I put a lot of time into learning as much as I could, and also made a few significant treks to look at pianos. My late wife and I had a lot of fun with it, and made a few memories along the way (some that I've shared here). In retrospect, I was pretty aggressive re. price, but ironically a real deal just fell in my lap. They're out there. It's not easy to sell a piano. Along with the above, I'd offer this caveat: we specifically sought out a relatively short grand, and in retrospect that constraint was unnecessary. I thought we'd be moving back into the city and would have less space. That has not turned out to be the case. That said, I'm attached to the piano now for sentimental reasons, and will never let it go (even if I "upgrade" at some point).
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That Pramberger 185 might be a nice piano for less than $7000? Weren't there some different permutations of that brand/series?
David
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What Pramberger 185?
Pianos with that name were made by Young Chang and Samick, depending on the year and model name. I recently judged a festival in the church that Joe Pramberger attended near the end of his life. It had one I had never seen before: a Pramberger 228 in an exotic wood finish. It had a lovely tone, but the action needed some attention. The tuning stability was not great over the course of the day, but I can’t say whether that was the fault of the piano, the technician, or an overzealous player.
Last edited by terminaldegree; 02/29/20 09:32 AM.
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Not that it makes amy difference but I wonder which veneer is used on the Pramberger 185. In the picture the grain is beautiful but the veneer looks orange to me.
J & J Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty Casio Privia P230 At least half the waiters in Nashville play better than I ![[Linked Image]]( https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/12292.png)
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Not that it makes amy difference but I wonder which veneer is used on the Pramberger 185. In the picture the grain is beautiful but the veneer looks orange to me. Supersport - thanks for finding the listing !! J&J - Here's a description of the finish from another ad for an identical Young Chang Pramberger:: "Piano ...... has a special Kewazinga Bubinga wood finish that is extremely rare. Kewazinga Bubinga is a very large West African timber with many of the same characteristics as rosewood. Distinguished by its red color streaked with dark purple and its conspicuous pores, this type of wood finish is highly valued for architectural and design woodwork and fine cabinetry." I remember when I played new Prambergers at the dealer 18 years ago, I was struck by the unique beauty of the cabinet of this model - but not sure I could live with that particular finish on a day to day basis. 
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Are these pianos from Stilwell rebuilt/refurbished?
Kawai NV10
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I’m not sure that the Pramberger linked was in bubinga, but I have seen that finish on more than one 185, and yes, it’s pretty loud, and there’s a good bit of orange in there.
I still contend the list of upright pianos I shared before would all be higher quality instruments than this. But, the 185 would be a decent option for someone who absolutely “has to have” a cheap used grand piano.
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Not that it makes amy difference but I wonder which veneer is used on the Pramberger 185. In the picture the grain is beautiful but the veneer looks orange to me. Supersport - thanks for finding the listing !! J&J - Here's a description of the finish from another ad for an identical Young Chang Pramberger:: "Piano ...... has a special Kewazinga Bubinga wood finish that is extremely rare. Kewazinga Bubinga is a very large West African timber with many of the same characteristics as rosewood. Distinguished by its red color streaked with dark purple and its conspicuous pores, this type of wood finish is highly valued for architectural and design woodwork and fine cabinetry." I remember when I played new Prambergers at the dealer 18 years ago, I was struck by the unique beauty of the cabinet of this model - but not sure I could live with that particular finish on a day to day basis. Thank you for the explanation. The Prambergers Bubinga looks rather different than the Bubinga on my Estonia. ![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/12172.jpg)
J & J Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty Casio Privia P230 At least half the waiters in Nashville play better than I
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I’m not sure that the Pramberger linked was in bubinga, but I have seen that finish on more than one 185, and yes, it’s pretty loud, and there’s a good bit of orange in there. Yeah, just going off the photos, the tone/color of that Pramberger is *very* bright and *very* orange. It might work in some spaces/interiors, but not many. And it would probably be hard to re-sell.
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2 ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/9medals.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/medal_c_3.jpg)
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Are these pianos from Stilwell rebuilt/refurbished? Tom - I've visited Stilwell four times over the past 3 years and tried the vast majority of the pianos in their showroom. The older models (pre 1930) have usually had significant work done on them. The newer models (30-40 years old) seem to be pretty much in their original condition.(with tuning and minor regulation performed).
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Honestly, if I were you and if I would really look for the one instrument that would last me the rest of my days, I would definitely go for a grand and I would definitely not go for a 7000$ grand. This can only be a compromise which you would recognize after some time and be annoyed by it.
You have a usable upright and 7000$ now. Assuming you do not buy the grand now but in let's say three years? Your upright will probably last till then and then you might have 12000 or 15000$ and that would certainly be enough for a nice parlor grand, maybe an older Yamaha C3. I am not from the USA and do not know much about US piano brands except Steinway (although I never saw a NY instrument, we only have Hamburgs here), but from what I hear Baldwin is pretty good, too. They simply do not exist on the European market, so I never saw one, but you might get a Baldwin L from a respectable dealer within the budget I mentioned above.
So my suggestion is: If you have to buy now, go upright.. But I would not. Do not buy now if you want to buy the last instrument of your life but buy once you managed to get 12 - 15000.
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Honestly, if I were you and if I would really look for the one instrument that would last me the rest of my days, I would definitely go for a grand and I would definitely not go for a 7000$ grand. This can only be a compromise which you would recognize after some time and be annoyed by it.
You have a usable upright and 7000$ now. Assuming you do not buy the grand now but in let's say three years? Your upright will probably last till then and then you might have 12000 or 15000$ and that would certainly be enough for a nice parlor grand, maybe an older Yamaha C3. I am not from the USA and do not know much about US piano brands except Steinway (although I never saw a NY instrument, we only have Hamburgs here), but from what I hear Baldwin is pretty good, too. They simply do not exist on the European market, so I never saw one, but you might get a Baldwin L from a respectable dealer within the budget I mentioned above.
So my suggestion is: If you have to buy now, go upright.. But I would not. Do not buy now if you want to buy the last instrument of your life but buy once you managed to get 12 - 15000.
I would rather get a good upright. ,wait if you must to do so .No you have not got an accoustic upright you have a digital. If you waited and got a good upright that would be an amazing improvement. Some people are lucky they find a used grand which is great even though a quite a few years old and they could not be happier.I do not think this happens often.(not even finding a good upright ) Ruling out an upright altogether would be a mistake.There are 48"or 50" uprights with a much better treble and bass than many a 5ft 2" old grand. In fact often the action will be far better as well. Wait until you come across the right piano. A U3 or K500 are great choices so are the others on terminaldegree's list.
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Of course, the OP can wait longer, and deprive himself in order to steer more money into his piano savings, to spend more on a piano later that he'll have for a shorter duration...  Or... he can watch for a good deal. Naturally, there are many people on the other side of the consumerized advice, hoping to sell their piano for what it "should" sell for, and then there are sellers who get tired of waiting because no one wants their piano, and they sell for a price that will move it.
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The only way to know what your $7000 will buy is to go play as many pianos as possible both at dealers and private sales. Try out the uprights and the grands. How far your money will stretch depends on supply and demand for a particular area and how eager the seller is. There are great deals—- you just need to find them; and you will find them when least expected.
Keep an open mind And you will find the piano that is right for you at the right price.
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The only way to know what your $7000 will buy is to go play as many pianos as possible both at dealers and private sales. Try out the uprights and the grands. How far your money will stretch depends on supply and demand for a particular area and how eager the seller is. There are great deals—- you just need to find them; and you will find them when least expected.
Keep an open mind And you will find the piano that is right for you at the right price. Along with dogperson’s advice, take notes when you try pianos. If you like a Kawai upright, do some reading up on Kawai pianos. Search this forum. Then if you look at Yamaha uprights you can do the same thing and that will give you some important info. Try as many different pianos as you possibly can. Then go back to your favorites. If the piano is used, you need an independent piano tech’s inspection Larry Fines Piano Buyer’s Guide is worthwhile reading. It has brand profiles, articles about buying a piano that fits your space, depreciation tables, and many other things that are really useful to know when piano shopping. Best wishes for success!
Last edited by j&j; 03/03/20 08:38 PM.
J & J Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty Casio Privia P230 At least half the waiters in Nashville play better than I
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Of course, the OP can wait longer, and deprive himself in order to steer more money into his piano savings, to spend more on a piano later that he'll have for a shorter duration... Or... he can watch for a good deal. Naturally, there are many people on the other side of the consumerized advice, hoping to sell their piano for what it "should" sell for, and then there are sellers who get tired of waiting because no one wants their piano, and they sell for a price that will move it. Yes but you were so lucky to get a really good grand ! However I get your point , only so many days are given to us .,and only so many days to buy a piano at a reasonable price.
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