2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad) Piano Sight Reading
train piano sight reading with your iPhone or iPad
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
81 members (BlakeOR, aphexdisklavier, anotherscott, AcousticAndre, 36251, Anglagard44, Carey, 23 invisible), 634 guests, and 417 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
Getting pops and clicks all over the place in both Pianoteq and Garritan CFX. Larger buffer size helps. Lower buffer size worsens it. As a certain Victoria might have said: We are not amused.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 391
N
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 391
No problem at my side. Using HDSPe AIO which comes with native ASIO support.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Your thread title says "Windows version 1909 broke ASIO4ALL". But it doesn't say what has failed.

Your text says that you get pops and clicks ... but you don't specify your settings.

Need more info.

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,238
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,238
As a cross-check, I also have the version 1909 update installed, and use ASIO4ALL.

I just checked Pianoteq. I had to re-set the "Listen to MIDI devices" checkbox, turning off and on the checkbox for "M-Audio Uno".

When I did that, everything worked as before. I could force dropouts, but only by laying my forearm on the keys and holding down the sustain pedal, and setting "Polyphony" to "Auto -- Optimistic".

So not _all_ version 1909 systems have trouble with ASIO4ALL.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Your thread title says "Windows version 1909 broke ASIO4ALL". But it doesn't say what has failed.

Your text says that you get pops and clicks ... but you don't specify your settings.

Need more info.


I don't know what failed, except ASIO4ALL does not work like it did previously. Both "Windows Audio" and "Direct sound" function without pops and clicks, but their minimum buffer size is large compared to ASIO4ALL. (Any Pianoteq user should try "DirectSound" for a laugh).

The disturbing noises may happen when pushing a single key softly without pedal, and at any rate in terms of processing power the PC is very far beyond that required by Pianoteq. In other words, the problem does not seem to involve the CPU.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
As a cross-check, I also have the version 1909 update installed, and use ASIO4ALL.

I just checked Pianoteq. I had to re-set the "Listen to MIDI devices" checkbox, turning off and on the checkbox for "M-Audio Uno".

When I did that, everything worked as before. I could force dropouts, but only by laying my forearm on the keys and holding down the sustain pedal, and setting "Polyphony" to "Auto -- Optimistic".

So not _all_ version 1909 systems have trouble with ASIO4ALL.



Thanks. I'll try the same things you did. Re-installing the ASIO4ALL driver, and rebooting did not have any impact.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,222
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,222
How did you update? In my system, Windows update offers and incremental update. Is it your case as well?

Looking at some forums in the Internet, it is possible to downgrade by removing that incremental update:
Link

My understanding is this update does not add much value and it is optional (for the time being - until MS decides to shove it down the throat).


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
Originally Posted by EVC2017
How did you update? In my system, Windows update offers and incremental update. Is it your case as well?

Looking at some forums in the Internet, it is possible to downgrade by removing that incremental update:
Link

My understanding is this update does not add much value and it is optional (for the time being - until MS decides to shove it down the throat).


Hmmm, it was just the regular type of update, although it did warn that this was a major update and might take longer than other updates. For the time being I have simply increased the buffer size (and thereby latency), and then I hope Micropest mend what they broke with a future update. Buffer size is now 192 in Pianoteq, and 256 in Garritan CFX, both of which seem acceptable.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,222
E
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,222
In my experience, W10 has had incremental improvements on the audio subsystem. I used to have drops and pauses during audio reproduction in this system (Dell Inspiron 15 7000 Gaming - Core i7 7700 2.8GHz) and it's been a while since these problems simply vanished so I believe there has been improvements along the way.

I agree with you, it is very likely these issues will be addressed with future updates.


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
I'd want to look at what programs are running that weren't there before. ASIO4All has not changed. But its ability to refresh the audio buffer has diminished. I suspect that there's something new/different that is consuming resources in a way that differs from the pre-update state.

BTW ... I've avoided 1909 and 1903. I'm still on 1809 and I will probably stay there. These incremental updates offer features that I have no use for. I see no reason for such punishment.

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I'd want to look at what programs are running that weren't there before. ASIO4All has not changed. But its ability to refresh the audio buffer has diminished. I suspect that there's something new/different that is consuming resources in a way that differs from the pre-update state.

BTW ... I've avoided 1909 and 1903. I'm still on 1809 and I will probably stay there. These incremental updates offer features that I have no use for. I see no reason for such punishment.


That's my suspicion too; Windows tends to pile on lots of useless garbage with time - all of which makes demands on the physical ressources available.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Actions
Cortana: disabled
Telemetry: disabled
Updates: disabled

Results
Performance: enabled smile

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Actions
Cortana: disabled
Telemetry: disabled
Updates: disabled

Results
Performance: enabled smile


I would definitely disable telemetry and updates, if Windows would let me. Cortana should be disabled already, but I better check. Thanks for the suggestions!


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
There are privacy settings that control the telemetry.

And there's a "metered" setting that will disable updates if you are using a metered connection. Change that setting.
Regardless of that ... since we mostly use non-metered connections, updates are enabled.
But ... you can change a registry setting to declare your network connection to be metered, even though it is not.
Presto! No updates!

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 16
R
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 16
asio4all is still working fine for me on 1909. Don't disable updates, they keep you secure.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Yes, disable updates. They sometimes break your computer whilst offering little or nothing.

Find those few KB's that (a) relate to security and (b) have not broken anything ... and then download and install them manually.
It's tedious, but you save a lot of headaches.

I'll get my next automatic update when this computer gets replaced after about seven years. That'll be in 2024, and Windows 11.

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,238
C
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,238
To figure out what's causing glitches (since they occur even if only one key is pressed, it's not a simple "CPU capacity" problem):

. . . Try downloading and running "LatencyMon" and/or its more-detailed cousin "In Depth Latency Tests".

You might find out what's holding things up.

One day, there will be a real-time version of Windows,, and it will run in a normal desktop environment. I may be dead by then, but I believe with perfect faith . . . . <g>


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 968
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Find those few KB's that (a) relate to security and (b) have not broken anything ... and then download and install them manually.
It's tedious, but you save a lot of headaches.
Nice tip, thank you.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
. . . Try downloading and running "LatencyMon" and/or its more-detailed cousin "In Depth Latency Tests".

You might find out what's holding things up.
Thanks, I'll look those up.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
One day, there will be a real-time version of Windows,, and it will run in a normal desktop environment. I may be dead by then, but I believe with perfect faith . . . . <g>
You're more optimistic than I am. smile


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 16
R
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
R
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, disable updates. They sometimes break your computer whilst offering little or nothing.

Find those few KB's that (a) relate to security and (b) have not broken anything ... and then download and install them manually.
It's tedious, but you save a lot of headaches.

I'll get my next automatic update when this computer gets replaced after about seven years. That'll be in 2024, and Windows 11.


You obviously don’t understand that Windows is now SaaS, designed as a service and continually updated and patched. Every update comes with huge numbers of CVE exploit fixes. It’s fine if you want to forego regular security updates. But it’s incredibly irresponsible to be giving that sort of advice to people.

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,375
Most updates have nothing to do with security. And it's entirely responsible to discuss being responsible for one's own updates.
I did not recommend disregarding security updates. I specifically called for downloading those updates that relate to security.
This is not irresponsible. And it's not incredible. It's credibly responsible, and it's what a lot of people do to avoid the crippling updates that have plagued us these last two years.
Remember "United breaks guitars" some years ago? Well, looking at QuasiUnaFantasia's situation it seems that "Microsoft breaks pianos".
Just say no.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 202
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 202
After a recent update I no longer have any sound from any VST, especially my favorite Garritan CFX.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Couch to Concert Hall
Couch to Concert Hall
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Numa Compact 2x VS Arturia Keylab Essential 88
by Violao - 04/19/21 01:14 PM
The Logo of the Future - Steingraeber
by Skjalg - 04/19/21 10:47 AM
Practuce With Czerny
by BbAltered - 04/19/21 10:05 AM
What to check when getting a new piano
by Dong Huynh - 04/19/21 05:13 AM
Standchen which version of sheet music ?
by jzmeister1 - 04/19/21 03:47 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics206,396
Posts3,084,136
Members101,241
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5