2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
47 members (ChiaraTor, 8opus, AjinoRegret, chopinetto, David B, CajunJ, Arty Movie, blueviewlaguna., 14 invisible), 494 guests, and 223 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
j&j #2952218 02/27/20 12:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
Congratulations Jeffmeister, on your new Kawai GE-1. All the best wishes on your continued piano adventure.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
(ad int) Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952265 02/27/20 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 912
G
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 912
Congrats Jeffmeister on your new Kawai GE-1. I hope it brings you many years of enjoyment.

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952385 02/27/20 11:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,611
E
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,611
I find the slightly smaller octave width NY Steinway, Mason&Hamlin, Chickering, Knabe and Baldwin from WW2 to around 1980 keyboards to be more comfortable than the now almost universal "German" keyboards found in all European, Korean, Japanese, Chinese and the remaining American makers of today.

I don't have small hands but they aren't large either. I have a 9" open span between thumb and pinkie.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952391 02/27/20 11:53 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 529
M
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 529
Ed,

Could you elaborate on the ‘slightly smaller octave” statement? I have a M&H Model A from the early sixties. I’m presently feeling a case of GAS (Gadget Acquisition Syndrome) coming on. My M&H has a rather heavy action and I’m considering shopping for something else, but I can only reach an octave, and if a new piano would limit me even more, I might stick with what I have. I’m also starting to have arthritis, so I wonder if a lighter action would be better for me.

I’ve been playing for a number of years, but I’m still pretty awful. I enjoy playing much more than those around me enjoy listening to me do it.

thanks!


MH1963

'63 Mason & Hamlin Model A

[Linked Image]
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952485 02/28/20 09:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
J
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
I had already purchased the Kawai but asked the dealer if I could trade up before delivery. He said of course and is offering me the exact amount I paid as a trade up credit; however, when I went to try the other options, I was not "wowed". I thought maybe I should just take delivery of the one I bought and keep looking. The dealer is very good to work with and is offering let me know about used pianos he gets in. He is also prepping the new Estonia again and asked me to come in on Monday to try it after he has adjusted for voicing and key action depth. He said it was just unboxed and really needed to sit and get adjusted. I play classical and like the mellow sound which it lacked. If my budget was bigger, this would be easier. The new Estonia is expensive for me and I was going to stretch to get it. When it didn't "wow" me, I thought I should just wait. There was an Bechstein A175 (2010) that I am thinking about which will be a better price for me in the mid 20's. I just have a feel for the value for the price. I am always going to be an amateur player and want the closest to the top performance and quality that I can afford.

I know J&J said that is a bit unusual for a buying process. What else do you guys suggest?

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
MH1963 #2952491 02/28/20 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
Originally Posted by MH1963
Ed,

Could you elaborate on the ‘slightly smaller octave” statement? I have a M&H Model A from the early sixties. I’m presently feeling a case of GAS (Gadget Acquisition Syndrome) coming on. My M&H has a rather heavy action and I’m considering shopping for something else, but I can only reach an octave, and if a new piano would limit me even more, I might stick with what I have. I’m also starting to have arthritis, so I wonder if a lighter action would be better for me.

I’ve been playing for a number of years, but I’m still pretty awful. I enjoy playing much more than those around me enjoy listening to me do it.

thanks!


I too am in the same boat. smile Playing and practicing for years but still fairly awful. I can do an octave and nine key stretch but for the really big chords I have to roll it and use either a damper or sostenuto pedal to hold the bottom note. The Estonia I bought has a lighter and very smooth action, which has helped the growing arthritis in my hands. Also I work on easy pieces for warm up, then build to more difficult pieces, take short stretch breaks and then finish with some easy pieces. Perhaps a full regulation on your M&H might make a big difference and that way you can keep it rather than buying some other piano? The experts would have to weigh in. Best wishes!


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952494 02/28/20 10:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
Originally Posted by Jeffmeister
I had already purchased the Kawai but asked the dealer if I could trade up before delivery. He said of course and is offering me the exact amount I paid as a trade up credit; however, when I went to try the other options, I was not "wowed". I thought maybe I should just take delivery of the one I bought and keep looking. The dealer is very good to work with and is offering let me know about used pianos he gets in. He is also prepping the new Estonia again and asked me to come in on Monday to try it after he has adjusted for voicing and key action depth. He said it was just unboxed and really needed to sit and get adjusted. I play classical and like the mellow sound which it lacked. If my budget was bigger, this would be easier. The new Estonia is expensive for me and I was going to stretch to get it. When it didn't "wow" me, I thought I should just wait. There was an Bechstein A175 (2010) that I am thinking about which will be a better price for me in the mid 20's. I just have a feel for the value for the price. I am always going to be an amateur player and want the closest to the top performance and quality that I can afford.

I know J&J said that is a bit unusual for a buying process. What else do you guys suggest?


Now that you fully explained what the dealer is offering to do, that’s an unusual but wonderful buying process. If the new Estonia was just unboxed it needs some time to settle and adjust. It also needs the typical dealer prep which includes tuning, voicing and regulation. If your dealer is willing to let you trade up before delivery and will do the work on the new Estonia or maybe tweak the Bechstein I’d take him (your dealer) up on the offer. If you’re not really over the moon for the Kawai, go back and really put the Estonia and the Bechstein through their paces. Best wishes!


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952509 02/28/20 10:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 766
G
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 766
Not too unusual at all, indecision and doubts are part of the buying process smile

My suggestion, is yes put that Estonia and Bechstein through their paces. But unless you really fall for one of them and those doubts and indecision are resolved, stay with the Kawai, or put the whole thing on hold while you try other pianos as well if that is still an option.

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
gwing #2952542 02/28/20 12:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
Originally Posted by gwing
Not too unusual at all, indecision and doubts are part of the buying process smile

My suggestion, is yes put that Estonia and Bechstein through their paces. But unless you really fall for one of them and those doubts and indecision are resolved, stay with the Kawai, or put the whole thing on hold while you try other pianos as well if that is still an option.


Hmmmm. Having not been in retail for 40 years and having never worked in a MI store, I really couldn’t say what a normal or unusual buying process is. I guess what I found unusual is that our OP, Jeffmeister, had second thoughts after purchasing the Kawai. It makes perfect sense the dealer is holding the deposit or money on the Kawai to apply the money to a different more expensive piano if Jeffmeister wants to change his purchase. Maybe that type of thing is not that unusual. Its just so different from my buying process. Anyway, Jeffmeister, best wishes for whatever you decide.

Last edited by j&j; 02/28/20 12:09 PM.

J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952609 02/28/20 03:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
J
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
What happened to my thought process is this . . . I grew up playing a Kawai and thought that was a natural fit and the price was good. Not knowing how long a piano would last, I thought the Kawai was fine built in 1990; however, it didn't occur to me that I could pass this down to my daughter. She plays for church. I asked the dealer if I could trade and he said "sure". The dealer is awesome! Very very nice and helpful and skilled at preparing pianos.

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952645 02/28/20 05:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
Originally Posted by Jeffmeister
What happened to my thought process is this . . . I grew up playing a Kawai and thought that was a natural fit and the price was good. Not knowing how long a piano would last, I thought the Kawai was fine built in 1990; however, it didn't occur to me that I could pass this down to my daughter. She plays for church. I asked the dealer if I could trade and he said "sure". The dealer is awesome! Very very nice and helpful and skilled at preparing pianos.


Wow - sounds like the right way to go. I’m glad you’re working with a good piano dealer. And it certainly beats having 2nd thoughts a few weeks to months down the road.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952680 02/28/20 07:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,612
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,612
The "best" action in any piano is the one perfectly set up and regulated to the owner's needs. Which can vary from case to case.
There's no short cut or "quick" answer to this.

Norbert


Last edited by Norbert; 02/28/20 07:21 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2952792 02/29/20 02:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 37
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 37
Your post was really interesting to me as I felt the same issues. I also have very small hands and had a Petrof upright growing up (which I felt like literally no one had). The action on the piano was so stiff. It did however up my endurance for recitals etc, I felt like my fingers flew when playing a Yamaha. I personally liked the action and bright sound of Yamahas and would seriously consider buying one at some point. Of course the dream is to have a Steinway grand but with budget constraints etc I always felt a Yamaha was a solid choice.

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2954104 03/04/20 09:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
J
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
I learned so much in this process. The main thing I learned is that a good technician can adjust a piano's action and sound. So, just because a piano is too stiff or too bright, doesn't mean the piano can't be adjusted for my needs. This information really changes the game for me because I know I can make a brighter piano voiced a bit mellower which I prefer. I can also have the action adjusted. Now, I think I just have to keep trying pianos until I find one that sings to me. It is such an individual decision based on your own personal preferences. I have the Kawai in my home and it is beautiful. I am enjoying playing again. I will see how things progress over the next year and keep visiting my piano store to try out their pianos. Thanks to everyone on this page who offered advice. It was very helpful. Also, thanks to Ruggero piano in NC. They are the best!

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2954109 03/04/20 09:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
Alrighty then. Congratulations on your new Kawai! Please post some pictures of the new “baby”. We on PianoWorld love looking at member’s pianos. wink


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2954134 03/04/20 10:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,119
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,119
So called “stiff action” can be due to many reasons, including your technique. But, or and, s others have said, a wonderful technician is your best friend in this process of finding and adjusting how an action feels.

Technicians are essential in this process because worth the best of them you should (in my opinion) feel like you’re collaborating with another artist to put the piano into the best, most playable condition—meaning the condition that suits YOU.

It’s all a very personal thing and, as I said, at first, your technique and how efficiently it works may well be the most important part of the chain. But in saying that I’m also implying the possibility of more study at the piano.

Meanwhile we all have to pick the piano and the action we like according to the technique we have now. That, rather than the technique we might hope to have at some later point.

That’s why collaboration with a talented and responsive technician—a person who will listen to your needs for the piano and try to achieve them—is essential. The extent to which a fabulous technician can indeed setup a piano to your liking is not something to overlook or downplay.

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Mark Polishook #2954185 03/04/20 01:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
j&j Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,298
Originally Posted by Mark Polishook
So called “stiff action” can be due to many reasons, including your technique. But, or and, s others have said, a wonderful technician is your best friend in this process of finding and adjusting how an action feels.

Technicians are essential in this process because worth the best of them you should (in my opinion) feel like you’re collaborating with another artist to put the piano into the best, most playable condition—meaning the condition that suits YOU.

It’s all a very personal thing and, as I said, at first, your technique and how efficiently it works may well be the most important part of the chain. But in saying that I’m also implying the possibility of more study at the piano.

Meanwhile we all have to pick the piano and the action we like according to the technique we have now. That, rather than the technique we might hope to have at some later point.

That’s why collaboration with a talented and responsive technician—a person who will listen to your needs for the piano and try to achieve them—is essential. The extent to which a fabulous technician can indeed setup a piano to your liking is not something to overlook or downplay.



I would like to add a bit to your very informative post. Competent, well trained piano technicians can certainly regulate an action to be smoother and more enjoyable to play. They can and do voice a piano to either make it brighter or more mellow. When you buy any piano, new or used, you need to buy a piano that you love both the piano’s voice and action, rather than buying a piano whose sound you don’t like or action you hate hoping your piano tech can work miracles. Some piano techs can and do work miracles but that tends to be expensive.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I save far better than I play!
[Linked Image]
Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2954378 03/05/20 07:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
J
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10
Good points by both posters. I can't adjust the 5' Kawai and make it end up sounding and feeling like a 5'9" Estonia that I really wanted. I am taking piano again at the university and will save my money for an ebony polished Estonia.. They are fabulous pianos..

Re: Need help understanding which pianos will have best action
Jeffmeister #2954496 03/05/20 03:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,034
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,034
Clefmeister to Jeffmeister:

This sounds like my idea of a perfect solution, for the present time. It seems you like the 5-footer well enough to be happy for now. I think you might have a fairly easy time turning it over when you are ready to move up the piano food chain; there is always a market of parents looking for a first instrument for their kids. And, your search has opened your eyes to the range of possibilities that are out there. You could keep looking--- nothing wrong with that.

Do not worry too much about your hand size. Ravel had very small hands. Alicia de Laroccha had very small hands. If you are able to exceed what they did (and who knows?), then it will be time to start worrying. Or, better yet, time to start being happy and stop worrying at all.

It is absolutely true that a good tech can make a huge difference in a piano's performance and playability, especially with continuing, regular maintenance over time. But, as you have been told already, every piano has its own characteristic performance envelope, within which a kind of perfection can be sought. Extreme modifications, either to the tone or the action, will lead to disappointment since a piano cannot stabilize to be something it isn't. So buy something you like in the first place. Then everyone will be happy.

Think of Maurice; think of Alicia.

Saving for a purpose that is important to you, with your eyes on the prize, is a lot easier than just saving, with nothing to help your thoughts and behaviors align toward the goal. The ability to address something in life by using your thoughts and actions to develop momentum, is one of the great secrets. It is also one of the great secrets of excellent pianists, or anyone who wishes to achieve. Momentum: that invisible quality which has such a great power. A valuable gift to yourself; one which money cannot buy, but which you, alone, can give to yourself.

Good luck!


Clef

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Eleanor Sokoloff RIP
by pianoloverus - 07/13/20 04:15 PM
Winter NAMM 2021 - Proceed or Cancel?
by PianoManChuck - 07/13/20 03:55 PM
Roland A-88mk2 - clunky black keys?
by Karnevil - 07/13/20 01:53 PM
PianoLink International Amateur Competition
by SiFi - 07/13/20 01:17 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,235
Posts2,980,328
Members97,760
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4