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Binaural sound #2952066 02/27/20 04:42 AM
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Hi, just a quick question if anyone knows the answer. Is the binaural sound (on recent Yamaha digital pianos) only available on Yamaha? If not, I think this makes other brands of digital pianos inferior, IF most of the time you are using headphones to play. I don’t think the normal sound using headphones comes anything close to the binaural sampling.

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Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952089 02/27/20 07:05 AM
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I would like to hear an audio comparative between the same piece played with and without binaural samples on the same Yamaha DP before saying that it's superior.
Kawai uses their SHS technology to make their samples sound more natural with headphones but I prefer to hear the original samples without that artificial 'surround' effect which, in my opinion, blurs the sound too much between left and right channel.
Binaural samples, in theory, should be better sounding for the player, but sometimes theory and practice differ...

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952100 02/27/20 07:52 AM
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Most of what you read in product specs is pure marketing. At least that's what it was when I worked in consumer electronics...

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Martinez] #2952113 02/27/20 08:32 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online Content
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Originally Posted by Martinez
Most of what you read in product specs is pure marketing. At least that's what it was when I worked in consumer electronics...

Binaural recordings are based on science: physics and mathematics. It is not marketing. Of course marketing can be used to sell it as something it's not. But anyone can read links like the one I just gave for the science behind binaural recordings.


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Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952131 02/27/20 09:32 AM
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clothearednincompo Offline
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Dexibell uses "holophonic" samples which is a sort of binaural audio.

Supposedly.

I don't really know more than that

And then of course Pianoteq is an easy way to compare stereo and binaural. (In addition to a Clavinova)

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952132 02/27/20 09:35 AM
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One of the piano sample sets you can load into the Nords is binaural. I think that's the only other keyboard manufacturer that does this.

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952133 02/27/20 09:36 AM
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Roland have something on their pianos that balances the sound better in headphones than their previous models. I think they started that with the HP6XX series, or perhaps the 508. Anyway I think they don't call it binaural because of Yamaha.

Re: Binaural sound [Re: joe80] #2952137 02/27/20 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by joe80
Anyway I think they don't call it binaural because of Yamaha.


"Binaural" isn't a Yamaha trademark. It's been around for decades (the word and the science). Kind of like "stereo".

Garritan CFX has binaural samples to, though I don't really think those are fundamentally better than the classic mic arrangement.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952138 02/27/20 09:48 AM
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Binaural is recorded with an acoustics head and mics into the ears.
As you do yourself when you hear anything.


My pianos : Kawai ES8, Yamaha N1X
Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952143 02/27/20 10:04 AM
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I have it on my 645, it's interesting but definitely not a game changer, IMO.


Lisa

Playing RCM 7 & 8 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP & CLP645

"I tell my piano the things I used to tell you." - Frederic Chopin
Re: Binaural sound [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2952148 02/27/20 10:15 AM
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Martinez Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Martinez
Most of what you read in product specs is pure marketing. At least that's what it was when I worked in consumer electronics...

Binaural recordings are based on science: physics and mathematics. It is not marketing. Of course marketing can be used to sell it as something it's not. But anyone can read links like the one I just gave for the science behind binaural recordings.

Of course you are correct.

What I meant to say is Yamaha might call it binaural sampling, others have super-duper-rendering, coupled with high-energy simulation plus amazing modeling. In the end the quality makers of DPs all have technology to make their products sound great. Some of them are better, some are worse. And then there is personal preferences.

Technology is complicated, and that's where the marketing comes into play to create a message with buzzwords that the average consumer can digest.

Thus my take on all of this: don't go with buzzwords praising the superiority of a product over others. Test yourself and buy what you like best.

And that's all I have to say about that smile

Re: Binaural sound [Re: clothearednincompo] #2952158 02/27/20 10:27 AM
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magicpiano Offline
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
[...]
And then of course Pianoteq is an easy way to compare stereo and binaural. (In addition to a Clavinova)
Well, Pianoteq creates both the piano sound and the binaural effect with algorithms, so the result could be different (not necessarily better or worse) compared with Yamaha binaural samples.
Anyway, what I hear when binaural output is activated in Pianoteq is a more 'central' sound, with frequencies more evenly distributed between left and right channel. Without binaural, I feel more stereo separation. I don't know which is better... It's just... different! Probably 'binaural' is more similar to what a pianist hears, 'no binaural' is more similar to a good piano recording. Of course, all of this matters just with headphones... The SHS effect on my Kawai DP does more or less a similar thing and you feel less stereo separation, but then the sound is more blurred, where in Pianoteq I feel it remains very clear even in binaural mode.
So, on my DP I prefer to play without SHS.

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952181 02/27/20 11:26 AM
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Heh, I kind of forgot that Pianoteq is "fake".

Definitely not recorded with a dummy head as it's not recorded at all. 🙃

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952186 02/27/20 11:33 AM
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I've never found binaural to be worth the fuss. And with pianos ... I wonder whether it's just another distraction, meant to deflect attention from the still-not-so-stellar sound?

Re: Binaural sound [Re: MacMacMac] #2952211 02/27/20 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've never found binaural to be worth the fuss. And with pianos ... I wonder whether it's just another distraction, meant to deflect attention from the still-not-so-stellar sound?

Mac^3, when are you going to be able to try out the N1X? Last time you were planning to, a trip got cancelled and then you forgot later. Aren't there any Yamaha dealers in Raleigh?


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Binaural sound [Re: MacMacMac] #2952212 02/27/20 12:20 PM
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magicpiano Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've never found binaural to be worth the fuss. And with pianos ... I wonder whether it's just another distraction, meant to deflect attention from the still-not-so-stellar sound?
Yeah, IMHO they could use that extra storage memory to put more velocity layers or longer samples in it, instead of binaural samples that probably don't make such a big difference in perceived quality...

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952217 02/27/20 12:28 PM
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There is some marketing voodoo around all audio. I've heard a lot of "meh" binaural recordings but found the "barbershop" demo to be awesome.

- CyberGene and a few others really like Yamaha's binaural piano sounds.

- There are varying opinions around Garritan CFX's binaural perspective. Disagreement if the L & R channels are swapped so that throws a wrench in the whole thing IMHO
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2877942/garritan-cfx-swapped-stereo-image.html

- PianoTeq has a neat binaural audio implementation with some adjustability. I found increasing the head size to improve sound for me. You can try the free demo to see for yourself.
Originally Posted by newer player
The binaural headphone scheme is pretty good IMO. In particular:

1. try changing the head diameter options
2. try using different headphones/earbuds that you might own.

Go to the PianoTeq output window, select "binaural MODE", hover over the headphone image:

- head diameter - right-click up arrow
- head angle - right-click left-right arrow
- head position x,y,z- right-click headphones

Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952315 02/27/20 05:25 PM
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I turned the binaural off my CFX (P515) and it sounds better. The binaural in Pianoteq I never use; the stereo isn't as pronounced or pleasant as that on the P 515 either.
Whichever piano you select, the stereo sounds different anyway, so you're not stuck on the same old same old . . . .


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Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952340 02/27/20 06:25 PM
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I rarely used the binaural feature on my Yamaha DPs. I found it way to artificial.


Kawai Novus NV5
Re: Binaural sound [Re: Pathetique1] #2952345 02/27/20 07:00 PM
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Tried really hard to bring myself to like the binaural samples from both the Clavinova and Garritan CFX. Just couldn't.

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