Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum What would you choose, a Yamaha G7 or Baldwin SD or SD6?//

I am looking for a full piano (not a baby or parlor size) with full sounds for the bases and clear mid and treble. I always dream of owning a 9' concert grand piano.

I have recently had a chance to consider a Yamaha G7 (60's) and a Baldwin SD and another Baldwin SD6 (I think the Balwin's are from the 30's - 50s').

The Yamaha G7 sounds pretty bad (too bright) from the YouTube videos I watched (too bright). But not at all bright in person and it impressed me with its full and clear bases as well as the mid and high range. It has some recent work done (new strings and news hammers, oversized tuning pins). Someone told me that the G7 and C7 were the choices of many recording studio (?)

The bases of Balwin SD and SD6 from the Youtube videos did not impress me but I have not seen/heard them in person. Their maintenance and refurbishing record/history are unclear. I am trying to get more information.

The cosmetic conditions of the three are not excellent, I would give a C or D (lots of scratches, chips, dirty, etc) as they come off commission from some institutions.

What would you guys choose? How much would you pay for each? Please share your personal experience and stories. Thanks.

Hello, and welcome to Piano World!

I'm not as familiar with the older Baldwin SD models from the 30s to 50s (?). I looked at an older Baldwin 7' grand from the 1920s once, and I believe it was an "F" model? Not sure. But I was not very impressed either.

Anyway, unless the Baldwin has had some quality refurbishment, I'd certainly lean toward the G7, which is a bit younger. I have a Yamaha C7 from the late 1970s, and it sounds and plays fantastic, even with some wear on it. I've heard and read the differences between the Yamaha G series and the C series are not that extensive or drastic, with the C series being a bit more robust with a heavier plate. But I'm no pro...

However, I do know that when it comes to pianos, old or new, condition is usually more important than brand or age.

Whatever you buy, I'd have it inspected by a qualified piano tech before purchase.

Good luck!

Rick

Thanks Rick for your reply and advice! I was thinking that Yamaha has a reputation of consistent quality, reliability and longevity that I have heard many calling it the "Toyota" or "Honda" of the piano world. But I do not personally have any experience with Baldwin.

I agree with you Rick and am waiting for more info from the sellers of the Baldwin. As old as all of them three, I am really want to see if there is any refurbishment done on them, especially they could have been subjected to heavy use from the institutions they were from.

But I am also wondering about the sound/tone of the Baldwin. From my personal experience with the Yamaha, the sounds from internet samples are not that reliable to give any impression or to make any decision.

So hope more people could come in and share more of your personal experience. Thanks!

You are considering pianos old enough that the initial quality is probably not much of a concern, rather the current condition is.
I have played a rebuilt Baldwin SD6 back in my conservatory days that was probably my favorite Baldwin, ever. However, most of these big pianos are coming from hard use in institutional environments, and at 60+ years old most will have needed significant repair or rebuilding work to play at their full potential.

The Yamaha C7 models you see in recording studios aren't that old. They became more popular in the 1980s (because they were a cost-effective way to get a competently built large piano, and they tend to record cleanly) through today (and the new ones are much more expensive).

A used large grand is sometimes a good value, because they're hard to sell. However, I would urge you to have a thorough technical inspection done before even thinking of buying the 1-2 you like best.

Thank you for your reply and info @Terminaldegree!

More questions: What are typically needed to be done and the average cost of a typical rebuild or refurbishing work/restoration for those old pianos?

How would you (or @Rickster or anyone here) suggest me to get an inspection on the Baldwin pianos which are in far locations (far enough that I probably could not personally be there)?

I have already got the inspection for the Yamaha G7 as it was close to my area and the papers/records confirmed the recent efurbishing work on the piano (new and oversized tuning pin, new strings and hammers). The seller asked for $4.5K-is it a good price?

Anyway, I am having a fear of losing the chance of owning a concert grand piano by going with the Yamaha G7 which is 7'4"

Driving in oversized pins, and replacing an entire set of strings and hammers, if done by an experienced technician, would equal or exceed the asking price you mentioned. So, either there’s something else wrong, the work was done very cheaply, or the seller is having trouble finding a buyer and needs some $$ now.

To find a technician to diagnose the piano at a distance, it would help if you told us where it’s located. There’s also a technician locator at: www.ptg.org

The cost of refurbishing and rebuilding is hard to say, because these words don’t have a specific definition in the industry, and the cost of vendors varies a lot based on location and experience. It could need $400, $4,000, or $40,000+ worth of work, depending on condition and your expectations.

More info here:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/buying-a-used-or-restored-piano-buying-a-restored-piano/

The sellers of the Balwins have not replied me with information on the maintenance/refurbishing records yet. Probably they did not want to answer my questions and tell more about the piano. So I guess it is more likely that nothing has been done on those two Baldwin.

From the pictures I got, both of the Baldwins are in worse shapes compared to the Yamaha. And the Yamaha got work done that will give me the peace of mind for years to come.

I also came to a piano store and tested out some used Baldwin there. Not concert grand size but they were 6' and 7's. Like @Rickster, I felt wanting more from the bases from those Baldwins there (again not concert grand) and the mid and treble were just ok to my ears (I am only an amateur so it is possible I might have missed something there).

Interestingly, I had a chat with the dealer there about Yamaha vs Baldwin. He told me to ask myself why Baldwin went out of business and Yamaha became from nobody to someone dominating the market. When I was there, I had a chance to look inside and play a couple of use Young Chang's and Knabe's (the American built, not the Asian ones). I was more impressed with the built quality of the Young Chang's than the Knabe's. Then I was thinking back to the dealer's saying that there were some good reasons why those companies went out of business. Hope someone could educate me more on this topic!

Anyway, I will give it about another day for the sellers of the Baldwins' replies. If they did not, I would just go with the Yamaha G7 as it was closer to me and already rebuilt (and that I have already been impressed with its tone and sound; its touch is also lovely, medium heavy but not really heavy and responsive), which I guess would give me less trouble and headache in the future than me assuming an unrestored piano and finding some quality rebuilders and then investing unseen amount of money into the restoration.

I might have to come back sometime in the future to fulfill my dream of owning a real concert grand, maybe the Yamaha CFX (?) I would probably have to wait very long for it to come down to under $10K (lol)

Thanks again @Terminaldegree for your information and advice!

You could sometime later run into a used CFIII. Those are fabulous.

Yes, I only listened to the sounds of the CFIII and CFX on Youtube and was very impressed. On the other hand, I was not impressed at all with all the Youtube videos of the Yamaha G7 and Baldwins.

I only wish that God could send me some money for those CF's now!!!

The implication that Yamaha are still in business because they're superior is just salesman nonsense. Also, unless there's something drastically wrong, it's difficult for the layman to judge the aspects of build quality that are relevant to the piano's quality as an instrument.

If two CFXs drop from the sky in my vicinity, I promise to send you one.

If you want to find a tech near those other pianos, you can search for a Registered Piano Technician here: www.ptg.org

The SD6 was the predecessor to the SD and SD10. In addition to TerminalDegree's comments above, another well-respected member here has spoken highly of the SD6 (maybe he'll speak up--I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth). I've never played one myself.

If you really want a nine-foot piano, perhaps you should have someone check them out for you. Otherwise you'll never know what their condition is, or what kind of work they might need. My gut feeling is that the Baldwins in their prime were probably higher quality than the Yamaha, but, of course, it's their current condition that matters, or the relative cost to get them into the condition you'd like them to be. As others have noted, the present condition is what's paramount re. their values.

Re. the guy who says that Baldwin "went out of business"...they didn't go out of business. They still produce and sell pianos. Yamaha is a larger company, and Baldwin did suffer in the marketplace. Many companies struggled to compete with Yamaha and other imported pianos in that era because the Japanese pianos were far less expensive.

Well, I could be all wrong. I only want to share my personal experience and to learn more from people what I got right and wrong. To my amateur's eyes when I look at those used pianos, Young Chang (80's and 90s') and Knabe (70's and 80s)-this was exactly a fair comparison as there was at least 10-year difference in the ages of those pianos, I saw that everything from those Knabe's, from the harp, paint/polish, keys, to even the name plate/decals on the fallboard seemed like the products of workers that just woke up from a nap compared to the same items on the Young Chang, which seems to me were the work of someone who just paid more attention and effort. The Young Change exuded something of quality compared to those Knabe's when I was there in person. Sort of like the quality you would only recognize in person when you look at the paint job of a Mercedes or Lexus vs those on cheap Toyota's and Honda's or a real LV purse vs a knockoff. At least on the surface.

Strangely, I was not impressed by those Knabe's in that store but more impressed by Young Chang as I never knew Young Chang before in person and only heard so much praise about Knabe's. Honestly, when I first heard the dealer mentioning the name Young Chang, I thought he was joking!

Well, I hope to still learn more about those topics, like what makes a good piano.

Anyway, if I won a lottery tomorrow, I would buy you one CFX too!

Thank you for your reply and advice on the 9' piano! I would certainly do that before making any decision to buy them!

Regarding to Yamaha/Japanese pianos won the market because they are far less expensive, I think you are right in a way but not entirely right. I do not think Yamaha could have won the market without real quality pianos. For an example, Young Chang or many Chinese brand pianos are still not dominating the market because they are cheaper than Yamaha or Kawai. I personally would go and pay more for sound, built quality, reliability, and longevity for a piano than just a shiny and cheap piece of furniture. On professional level, I have not seen or heard any professional pianist or piano performance or competition featuring a Young Chang or some Chinese pianos. But we probably saw Yamaha or Kawai there!

I am still struggling to find examples on the internet (like video recording) of Baldwin piano to learn and understand the reasons for its praise. I listened again and again but still did not hear the "thunderous" base of the Baldwin's from those Youtube videos (I came across those Youtube videos of the Baldwin's from Living Piano/Robert Estrin-those are very nice presentations of the Baldwin's but honestly I did not hear those "powerful" base even from those videos, they were not even as full as the base sound from the Yamaha G7 I heard in person or the Youtube examples of the Yamaha CFIII or CFX). But again, from my personal experience related to the Yamaha G7, those internet videos could be wrong. Maybe I need an opportunity to listen to at least a Baldwind concert grand in person, especially the SD6 as I like how its inside (the harp in particular) looks compared that of the SD10. But of course I would have no knowledge or personal experience of how SD6 fairs with SD or SD10

Please do not take the above as me being closed-minded as I only want to share what I saw and heard. I really hope to hear more and learn from everyone on this topic!

Baldwin pianos were second only to Steinway in the American piano market in their prime. The SD and SD6 were both fine, highly desired pianos, only to be replace by the phenomenal improvements in the SD-10. Those pianos graced concert stages all around the country. They would have been much more desirable than the Yamaha G7. Baldwin's downfall was poor management and financial decisions. They did have a few quality problems at times, but their pianos were still highly desirable right up until they shut down manufacturing in the US. Many of us still wish those pianos were being built again. Maybe some day. I think Baldwins are a great value on the used market. One of our local dealers has a large used inventory, and there are always a few Baldwin R, L, & M's in the showroom. The asking price is extremely reasonable compared to their Steinway counterparts.

The same piano dealer keeps an old SD or SD6 in their concert rental fleet. I've played it many times, and I really enjoy that piano. It's a nice piano, but it has been properly cared for. Only a qualified technician can help you evaluate any of these pianos. They all have a lot of age on them now, so their current condition could be all over the spectrum at this point. Best of luck to you.

Thank you for your reply and info!

I will find a technician to access and evaluate the conditions of the Baldwins. But if the technician told they need to be rebuilt (probably they would because they retired from some institution), then it would probably be easier and cheaper for me to look for the ones that have been properly rebuilt than buying those pianos and investing in the restoration.

Johnstaf any mews on those 2 CFXs yet?

I was fortunate in that my concert grand had had some work done on it carelessly rather than badly. This reflected in the price, but my technician was able to solve all the problems.

I decided to go with the Yamaha G7. It had work done (oversized tuning pins, news strings and news hammers, recent regulation, and regular maintenance and tuning records) and I was really impressed by the way it played and sounded. The Baldwins are nice as they are concert grands but they would cost more that what are already available on the market if I added the cost of restoration. Also, something in my gut (could not really tell what is, but probably the experience that I got with the smaller Baldwin, 6' and 7', pianos at that piano store) that kept me from going with the Baldwins. I decided to get the Yamaha now and would just take time to look for that concert grand piano of my dream and seize it at the right opportunity.

I closed the deal this morning and the G7 is being transported now. I will get it later this evening

Congratulations on the G7!

I don't think you will be disappointed!

Post pics when you can, and a recording of your new-to-you G7!

Rick

Thank you Rick!

I tried almost all the pianos (used ones) in that piano store that day, from Steinways to Young Changs, looking for that full sound of bases in particular but did not hear them or impressed by any. Maybe something wrong with my ears, who knew? but I was able to hear that base sound I was looking for from the Yamaha G7. At that price with the work already done for the G7, I would have no worry for years to come.

I need to learn how to properly clean and polish the piano (inside and out-it is satin ebony) finish, especially ivory keys on the G7 (they are dirty and yellowish), before taking any pictures. Any tips to share Rick?

Thanks again everyone for all your advice and information!

Congratulations!! How exciting!!!

Be sure to share photos when it's delivered!