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grades of pieces
#2950846 02/24/20 06:53 AM
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Hello! I would like to know the grade of several pieces. I understand that some pieces may be harder or easier for a specific player depending on what their strengths and weaknesses are, but I would just like to know what grade they are in general.

Chopin:
Spring Waltz
Etude Opus 10 No. 1 (Waterfall)
Etude Opus 10 No. 4 (Torrent)
Etude Opus 10 No. 5 (Black Keys)
Etude Opus 10 No. 12 (Revolutionary)
Etude Opus 25 No. 11 (Winter Wind)
Etude Opus 25 No. 12 (Ocean)
Opus 66 (Fantaisie Impromptu)

Beethoven:
3rd Movement of Moonlight Sonata

Brahms:
Hungarian Dance No. 5 (the one for two hands)

Liszt:
La Campanella
Un Sospiro
Etude No. 6

Rachmaninoff:
Moment Musicaux No. 4

Bach:
Toccata in D minor

Glinka:
The Lark

Other:
Pirates of the Caribbean (the hard version where there's a lot of key spamming) Link to an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aBtDz87UK0

Sorry that it's so long lol.

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Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2950864 02/24/20 08:01 AM
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Hi,

Can I suggest that you ask this question in the 'Pianist Corner' section where you may get more replies? This section is where we normally discuss pianos rather than playing.

All I can offer personally as a reply is that these all fit the 'too hard by far' grade, but then I'm a beginner usually hanging around in the 'adult beginners' section. That by the way is a nice place and also has some pretty accomplished players posting there despite being called a place for beginners :-)

rgds,
Rob.

Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2950882 02/24/20 08:38 AM
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https://www.pianostreet.com/piano_music/download_1/sheet_1.php

There’s a link here that shows the level of famous pieces.

Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2950905 02/24/20 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gwing
All I can offer personally as a reply is that these all fit the 'too hard by far' grade, but then I'm a beginner usually hanging around in the 'adult beginners' section. That by the way is a nice place and also has some pretty accomplished players posting there despite being called a place for beginners :-)

rgds,
Rob.

You are right, Rob, some very accomplished players, and even professional players, hang out at the Adult Beginners forum, and are usually very helpful to others who wish to learn.

As for my piano playing, if it were graded in any way by the traditional piano grading methods or system, I'd get an "F" on everything I play, or at least a "Db". smile

All the best!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2950925 02/24/20 10:58 AM
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There is no universally accepted grading system. The majority of the pieces you mention are for very advanced players. Most websites rank them by relative order of difficulty. For example.......

http://www.pianolibrary.org/difficulty/chopin/

http://www.pianolibrary.org/difficulty/rachmaninoff/

Or you can go to the Henle website for works by specific composers.......(here's a summary of their ranking process)

https://www.henle.de/us/about-us/levels-of-difficulty-piano/

The difficulty of the Bach Toccata depends on who arranged it for piano. Difficulty ranges from intermediate to very advanced.

Sorry - can't help you with Pirates.


Last edited by Carey; 02/24/20 11:04 AM.

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Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2950940 02/24/20 11:28 AM
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Point of clarification - I'm assuming the Bach Toccata in d minor you are referring to is the one originally for organ (BWV 565) which has been arranged by many for piano as opposed to the other d minor Toccata Bach composed for "keyboard" (BWV 913). smile


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Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2951020 02/24/20 02:31 PM
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A quick glance at the pieces.I would say diploma level.
I do not know for sure the Black Key Study may be gr 10
unless I am thinking of the wrong piece ?

Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2951062 02/24/20 04:31 PM
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Only going to comment on one of these pieces, La Campanella, as it is a favorite of mine. This one is licentiate level (e.g., RCM LRCM, ABRSM LRSM, etc.). (It is not at the level of the first level diploma.) I've also seen this pop up on piano performance Master's Degree recital programmes.


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Re: grades of pieces
Tyrone Slothrop #2951172 02/24/20 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Only going to comment on one of these pieces, La Campanella, as it is a favorite of mine. This one is licentiate level (e.g., RCM LRCM, ABRSM LRSM, etc.). (It is not at the level of the first level diploma.) I've also seen this pop up on piano performance Master's Degree recital programmes.

La Campanella is obviously for high level performance grade so are some of those Chopin Etudes.

Re: grades of pieces
Lady Bird #2951185 02/24/20 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Only going to comment on one of these pieces, La Campanella, as it is a favorite of mine. This one is licentiate level (e.g., RCM LRCM, ABRSM LRSM, etc.). (It is not at the level of the first level diploma.) I've also seen this pop up on piano performance Master's Degree recital programmes.

La Campanella is obviously for high level performance grade so are some of those Chopin Etudes.
I would say all of the Chopin etudes. smile


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Re: grades of pieces
Carey #2951189 02/24/20 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Only going to comment on one of these pieces, La Campanella, as it is a favorite of mine. This one is licentiate level (e.g., RCM LRCM, ABRSM LRSM, etc.). (It is not at the level of the first level diploma.) I've also seen this pop up on piano performance Master's Degree recital programmes.
La Campanella is obviously for high level performance grade so are some of those Chopin Etudes.
I would say all of the Chopin etudes. smile

In RCM, 25/2 is actually on the RCM Level 10 syllabus and the rest of opus 10 and 25 are on the syllabus for the first level diploma, RCM's ARCT, and of these 10/3, 10/6, 10/9, 10/12, 25/1, 25/6, 25/9, and 25/12 are not on RCM's LRCM licentiate syllabus, so I guess RCM views these particular 8 as easier than the rest. I've read, probably on here or PianoStreet that his Trois nouvelles études are easier than op. 10 and 25, but don't know if that means easier than 25/2 though. Don't know what ABRSM and Trinity do with respect to any of these. I hope to try 25/2 myself in a couple of years - even if RCM considers it easiest of the op. 10 and 25 études, it seems ferociously fast to me.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2951190 02/24/20 11:19 PM
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I had a good grade 10 student of mine who did the Fantasy Impromptu quite well after his exam.I once did the un Sospiro (long time ago ) but never really polished it.The tricky 2nd to last page took a great deal of practice I remember.

Is that that the popular Fantasy Impromptu? I thought that piece was posthumous.,and never had
an opus number?
I now enjoy playing for myself and no pressure !
Occasionally I think of searching for my copy of un Sospiro .........

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/24/20 11:22 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2951191 02/24/20 11:28 PM
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Just another comment on the OP's original list which hasn't yet been noted in this thread:

Spring Waltz is neither 'Spring Waltz', nor by Chopin.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: grades of pieces
Lady Bird #2951193 02/24/20 11:41 PM
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Yes those Nouvelle are about gr10 or is one gr9 RCM ?

Re: grades of pieces
Lady Bird #2951194 02/24/20 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
[...]
Is that that the popular Fantasy Impromptu? I thought that piece was posthumous.,and never had
an opus number?
[...]


There is only one Fantaisie-Impromptu by Chopin and it is Op. 66 (published posthumously by Fontana).

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: grades of pieces
BruceD #2951200 02/25/20 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
[...]
Is that that the popular Fantasy Impromptu? I thought that piece was posthumous.,and never had
an opus number?
[...]


There is only one Fantaisie-Impromptu by Chopin and it is Op. 66 (published posthumously by Fontana).

Regards,

Yes I was thinking the poster was wrong about the opus number ?
Actually there are two versions of the piece both the same piece.
The new one is thought to be more authentic, but the older version has a strong performance
practice history so both are valid.It just a matter of a few notes being different.
I just remembered why I thought it posthumous was because I think Chopin did not want this piece
to be published .,Is that the correct story ???
Oh yes I see you say published posthumously yet it has an opus number. I think some pieces published this way were not given an opus. (Nocturne in Emin Op Posthumous )Perhaps I am wrong?

Last edited by Lady Bird; 02/25/20 12:15 AM. Reason: Extra word
Re: grades of pieces
Lady Bird #2951201 02/25/20 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Yes those Nouvelle are about gr10 or is one gr9 RCM ?

The second Nouvelle is easier than the 1st and 3rd - which are at least as difficult as the Opus 25 No. 2. IMO.


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Re: grades of pieces
Lady Bird #2951203 02/25/20 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
[...]
Is that that the popular Fantasy Impromptu? I thought that piece was posthumous.,and never had
an opus number?
[...]


There is only one Fantaisie-Impromptu by Chopin and it is Op. 66 (published posthumously by Fontana).

Regards,

Yes I was thinking the poster was wrong about the opus number ?
Actually there are two versions of the piece both the same piece.
The new one is thought to be more authentic, but the older version has a strong performance
practice history so both are valid.It just a matter of a few notes being different.
I just remembered why I thought it posthumous was because I think Chopin did not want this piece
be published .,Is that the correct story ???


That is essentially correct. The "autograph" version, as it is known, was discovered and owned by Arthur Rubinstein, and several editions publish both versions. The one more commonly played is a version that Chopin asked not to be published after his death, but his friend, Julian Fontana, disregarded those wishes and published several works posthumously, including the Fantaisie-Impromptu. It is often known as the "Fontana" version.

Regards,


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Re: grades of pieces
BruceD #2951221 02/25/20 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
That is essentially correct. The "autograph" version, as it is known, was discovered and owned by Arthur Rubinstein, and several editions publish both versions. The one more commonly played is a version that Chopin asked not to be published after his death, but his friend, Julian Fontana, disregarded those wishes and published several works posthumously, including the Fantaisie-Impromptu. It is often known as the "Fontana" version.

This is Kassia playing the Rubinstein version:


She said this about it:
Originally Posted by Kassia
Hi!:) At this time, in response to lots of requests, I prepared Chopin’s Fantaisie-Impromptu, Op. 66. This piece was published after Chopin died. For this piece, there are two versions which are mainly played by pianists. When Chopin died, he wished that his unpublished works and sketches would be burned. But, his friend Julian Fontana did not burn them. So, the first version of Fantaisie-Impromptu was published by Julian Fontana (1855 edition). Until the edition by Rubinstein, only this version was known for Fantaisie-Impromptu. In 1960, Rubinstein obtained the "Album of the Baroness d'Este" which had been sold at auction in Paris. In this album, he found the Fantaisie-Impromptu (1835) written by Chopin’s own hands, which was dedicated to Baroness d’Este a long time ago. Based on several reasons, Rubinstein was convinced that it was the final work of the Fantaisie-Impromptu. And, he found that there are significant alterations and improvements in harmony and style in Fontana’s edition. So, Rubinstein decided that the manuscript should be published. As a result, Rubinstein's edition based on the manuscript was published in 1962. When I checked YouTube, I found that the first version (by Fontana) has been played mainly. Personally, I like Rubinstein’s version. So, I prepared Fantaisie-Impromptu (Rubinstein Edition). I found that there is a sheet in IMSLP. But, it wasn't exactly the same as the Rubinstein’s edition. I will just attach the IMSLP version sheet in the description. I hope that you guys enjoy this performance!! Have a nice day!


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: grades of pieces
kaori #2951239 02/25/20 03:35 AM
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It is ONLY a few notes that are different. There are quite few alternate versions of some of his pieces. The history of performance practice means both versions are valid Same form ,same
level of difficulty.
Chopin also probably played the same piece differently on different occasions.
Mozart wrote an alternative slow movement for his sonata in F (K332 ? )
Play which version you like. The Fontana is still performed as well.Besides Fantasy Impromptu is not
one of his better works.Perhaps he wanted both destroyed--does not matter .,enjoy !

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