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MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? #2950757 02/23/20 11:39 PM
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Nip Offline OP
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Hi
I just love this piano, how versatile it is in settings and overall structure.

There seem to be among pianos
- sk concert grand under type 1 A-D
- ex grand under type 2 A-D
- sk5 grand under type 3 A-D
- upright piano under type 4 A-D

So figured each A, B, C and D are just different settings on each of these.

But looking at sk concert A and then the mellow grand C - I looked but found no difference in settings at all.

But if I do change top from open3 to open1 it gets a bit mellower, but does not show as different setting between concert grand and mellow grand.

I thought maybe there would be a Mellow mode setting, but it was Normal on both.

So my theory that just different setting among A-D does not seem to hold out.

Or what setting differ in A=sk concert grand vs C=sk mellow grand?

Going through and creating setups, and want to understand what I can change and not and what are original piano samplings.
Many thanks for any input what else may be there in settings that I missed.


Kawai MP7SE - Hammond XK3c - Synthesizers
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Re: MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? [Re: Nip] #2950770 02/23/20 11:59 PM
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Kawai James Offline
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Hello Nip,

Good to read that you are enjoying your MP7SE.

Originally Posted by Nip
So figured each A, B, C and D are just different settings on each of these.


No, as far as I am aware, the A~D variations are more than just different settings - they may be processed differently internally (i.e. not adjustable via the UI), or even different sample sets, depending on the sound.

Starting, for example, with the SK Concert Grand, it may be possible to create a sound that is similar to the SK Mellow Grand variation, but it will never be exactly the same as actual sound.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? [Re: Nip] #2950784 02/24/20 12:59 AM
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Nip Offline OP
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Many thanks for a swift reply.

Yes, it seems you are right.
Most obvious is maybe the D=Standard Grand that seems heavily EQed - and see no difference in setting you can reach.

I guess making setups one have to consider that duplicating some presets with just different original source. It's all good, just wondering.

Such a well thought out instrument.
smile


Kawai MP7SE - Hammond XK3c - Synthesizers
Re: MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? [Re: Nip] #2950879 02/24/20 08:33 AM
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I don't know whether Kawai does this, but I know some keyboards have piano presets that use the same samples as another, but use pitch shifting... i.e. each key uses the sample that was recorded for the semitone up or the semitone down, pitch-shifted to the new correct pitch, which gives you a noticeably different (brighter or darker) timbre out of the exact same set of samples. That would be one way you could have a different piano sound from the same samples, but in a way that is different than anything you could create yourself with on-board editing.

Re: MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? [Re: anotherscott] #2950917 02/24/20 10:36 AM
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Abdol Offline
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
I don't know whether Kawai does this, but I know some keyboards have piano presets that use the same samples as another, but use pitch shifting... i.e. each key uses the sample that was recorded for the semitone up or the semitone down, pitch-shifted to the new correct pitch, which gives you a noticeably different (brighter or darker) timbre out of the exact same set of samples. That would be one way you could have a different piano sound from the same samples, but in a way that is different than anything you could create yourself with on-board editing.


This is the most inauthentic unethical (Yamaha is doing it left and right) way to produce sound and because of the way sample synthesis ruins the audio signal (the way it is done in the old days and hasn't changed almost for a half-decade).

Today, we have far better pitch-shifting algorithms that can preserve the timber much better.

Last edited by Abdol; 02/24/20 10:37 AM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? [Re: Nip] #2950975 02/24/20 12:33 PM
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magicpiano Offline
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I think the variants of Kawai main piano sounds are made with internal EQ changes and maybe, for the mellow variants, with different mappings velocity -> volume.

Re: MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? [Re: Nip] #2951068 02/24/20 04:52 PM
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Frédéric L Offline
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I didn’t know about pitch shifting used to shift the timber. But some VST can map velocity to other while preserving the volume in order to twist the timbre. XLN Audio Addictive keys can render a piano difficult to recognise with such twists.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 02/24/20 04:54 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: MP7SE - what are original grand vs just different settings? [Re: Abdol] #2951479 02/25/20 05:24 PM
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anotherscott Offline
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Originally Posted by Abdol
Originally Posted by anotherscott
I don't know whether Kawai does this, but I know some keyboards have piano presets that use the same samples as another, but use pitch shifting... i.e. each key uses the sample that was recorded for the semitone up or the semitone down, pitch-shifted to the new correct pitch, which gives you a noticeably different (brighter or darker) timbre out of the exact same set of samples. That would be one way you could have a different piano sound from the same samples, but in a way that is different than anything you could create yourself with on-board editing.

This is the most inauthentic unethical (Yamaha is doing it left and right) way to produce sound and because of the way sample synthesis ruins the audio signal (the way it is done in the old days and hasn't changed almost for a half-decade).

Today, we have far better pitch-shifting algorithms that can preserve the timber much better.

You've missed the point. This isn't about stretching a sample to adjacent keys to cut down on the amount of samples needed (which I think may be what you're talking about), this is about pitch shifting every single note with the INTENT of altering its timbre. A "pitch-shifting algorithm that would preserve the timbre" would completely defeat the purpose!


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