2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
62 registered members (Contraalto64, Balcon, 3am_stargazing, ChatNoir, Barrett Bonden, computerpro3, Carey, Charles Cohen, 11 invisible), 458 guests, and 420 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
PCI Express card for VST playback #2950382 02/23/20 01:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
O
Osho Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
Hi,

I have been considering upgrading to a PCI Express card for VST playback. I am considering either Lynx E22 or RME HDSPe AIO.

Any experience with these cards? Or, input on other cards?

BTW, I am choosing to go to the PCI Express route over an USB interface primarily because:
  • I do not want a box outside to keep the setup clean looking.
  • Hopefully lower latency.
  • No need to power on/off an external box. Resuming PC from sleep should wake up the sound card as well.


Thanks,
Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods, and more!
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950409 02/23/20 04:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 725
Granyala Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 725
I use my old Titanium HD PCI-E sound card. Latencies of ~4ms are easily achieved, it runs stable and sound quality is great.

I think the RME cards are a wee bit overkill for simple VST playback.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Granyala] #2950419 02/23/20 06:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
O
Osho Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by Granyala
I use my old Titanium HD PCI-E sound card. Latencies of ~4ms are easily achieved, it runs stable and sound quality is great.

I think the RME cards are a wee bit overkill for simple VST playback.

Good to know. What ASIO drivers are you using? Are you using ASIO4ALL or does Creative provide good quality drivers?

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950433 02/23/20 07:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
Yowza! Amazon has that Lynx E22 at $726 and the RME HDSPe at $900 !!!
Originally Posted by Osho
I have been considering upgrading to a PCI Express card for VST playback. I am considering either Lynx E22 or RME HDSPe AIO.
What will these do that a $100 card won't?

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: MacMacMac] #2950437 02/23/20 08:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 140
P
Pianofortissimo Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 140
[quote=]What will these do that a $100 card won't?[/quote]
Audio quality! That's all!

Last edited by Pianofortissimo; 02/23/20 08:06 AM.
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950442 02/23/20 08:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
In other words ... they go beyond Osho's stated requirements.

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950467 02/23/20 10:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,447
johnstaf Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,447
RME cards have great drivers written for them. Many other cards don't. If you read a lot of reviews, you should be able to get some idea about the drivers.

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950503 02/23/20 12:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 725
Granyala Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by Osho
Good to know. What ASIO drivers are you using? Are you using ASIO4ALL or does Creative provide good quality drivers?
Osho

I use the driver supplied by Creative. It has it's temperamental moments, esp after the big windows updates (it's an old card after all) but it works nicely. Not sure about the ASIO capabilities of Creatives newer cards though.

If driver stability and support is what you want though, RME is hard to beat.

Eventually I plan to replace my aging soundcard with one of these:
https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950597 02/23/20 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
O
Osho Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
Thanks all for the input.

Rock solid ASIO drivers are very important - especially as I put my PC to sleep and resume it regularly while keeping the VST running across the sleep-resume cycle. It is important for me that ASIO drivers continue to work well across many such sleep-resume transitions.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950611 02/23/20 04:56 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 112
A
AB99 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 112
Lynx is also very stable in my experience.

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: johnstaf] #2950615 02/23/20 05:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 751
E
EPW Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by johnstaf
RME cards have great drivers written for them. Many other cards don't. If you read a lot of reviews, you should be able to get some idea about the drivers.


Also RME has a reputation for supporting their older hardware with driver updates.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950786 02/24/20 01:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 725
Granyala Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by Osho
Thanks all for the input.

Rock solid ASIO drivers are very important - especially as I put my PC to sleep and resume it regularly while keeping the VST running across the sleep-resume cycle. It is important for me that ASIO drivers continue to work well across many such sleep-resume transitions.

Osho

Yeah.. I would advise against creative drivers then. These need a full boot to work properly, even Win10s fast boot regularly caused issues for me, so I had to disable it.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Granyala] #2950807 02/24/20 02:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
O
Osho Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by Granyala
Yeah.. I would advise against creative drivers then. These need a full boot to work properly, even Win10s fast boot regularly caused issues for me, so I had to disable it.


Good to know - thanks for the info.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950829 02/24/20 05:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,116
D
dire tonic Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,116
You've apparently ruled out using an external box but if you have a change of heart, get Steinberg's UR22 (or one of the later variants). I've been deeply frustrated with interfaces which failed to reliably wake up from sleep, always requiring a reboot. The UR22 is rock solid (on my PC) for sleep recovery, even after a couple of days. Plus it's cheap, sounds good and the Yamaha drivers provide a 32 sample buffer for very low latency if your PC has the power.

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2950838 02/24/20 06:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
@dire tonic: Good point. You don't need to spend $1000 to get a good quality interface.

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2951213 02/25/20 01:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 85
K
Kougeru Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by Osho
Hi,

I have been considering upgrading to a PCI Express card for VST playback. I am considering either Lynx E22 or RME HDSPe AIO.

Any experience with these cards? Or, input on other cards?

BTW, I am choosing to go to the PCI Express route over an USB interface primarily because:
  • I do not want a box outside to keep the setup clean looking.
  • Hopefully lower latency.
  • No need to power on/off an external box. Resuming PC from sleep should wake up the sound card as well.


Thanks,
Osho


So quite a few of your reasons are completely irrelevant to Audio Interface vs PCI-E

Obviously Looks is an opinion we can ignore that.

Lower latency? There's no technical reason why a PCI-E card would have lower latency than an audio interface.
No need to power on/off an external box? I can't think of a single audio interface where that's a thing to begin with. Maybe older ones? Only ones I know of now days are USB-powered and thus turned on when the PC is turned on.

the main differences I can find between PCIE cards and Audio Interfaces is really just that Audio Interfaces support more external hardware by having better/more inputs such as XLR inputs.

I'd honestly go with whichever is cheaper, of those two cards you're looking at. They both seem more than capable.

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2951274 02/25/20 06:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
MacMacMac Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 10,758
@Kougeru: I think you're correct on all points.

Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Kougeru] #2951616 02/25/20 11:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
O
Osho Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by Kougeru

Lower latency? There's no technical reason why a PCI-E card would have lower latency than an audio interface.

This is not true. Measurement data says otherwise.

Originally Posted by Kougeru

No need to power on/off an external box? I can't think of a single audio interface where that's a thing to begin with. Maybe older ones? Only ones I know of now days are USB-powered and thus turned on when the PC is turned on.


I actually got a MOTU M2 USB-C interface and returned it because when the PC sleeps, the interface still stays powered up. Now, this maybe a motherboard thing that it is powering the USB-C even when PC enters into sleep - but I do not want my audio interface on 24 hours or have to turn it off and on manually.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Osho] #2951635 02/26/20 12:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,203
G
Gombessa Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,203
Originally Posted by Osho

This is not true. Measurement data says otherwise.


That was super interesting, thanks for the link Osho.

What struck me from the study (which looks a lot like a "DPBSD for audio interfaces) was this line:

Quote
The tested PCI/PCIe interfaces do however lead in performance , clearly indicated by the tables above , but the variance is not as large as it once was. The RME FW and USB interfaces for example are prime examples by not being too far off the base reference in both performance , I/O and RTL. - http://www.dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency2.htm


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: PCI Express card for VST playback [Re: Gombessa] #2951638 02/26/20 12:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
O
Osho Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,136
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Osho

This is not true. Measurement data says otherwise.


That was super interesting, thanks for the link Osho.

What struck me from the study (which looks a lot like a "DPBSD for audio interfaces) was this line:

Quote
The tested PCI/PCIe interfaces do however lead in performance , clearly indicated by the tables above , but the variance is not as large as it once was. The RME FW and USB interfaces for example are prime examples by not being too far off the base reference in both performance , I/O and RTL. - http://www.dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency2.htm


Another interesting reading from the mammoth 131 page thread was in the last 2-3 pages. There are controversial and disputed claims that USB interfaces do not have consistent latency behavior across reboots. I find this hard to believe - but it was interesting nevertheless.

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
(ad)
Pianoforall
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
MIDI Controller + Piano software? Help.
by Pil3up - 04/01/20 12:55 PM
Kawai VT: so... no Android app, uh?
by Ragtime2k - 04/01/20 12:41 PM
8DIO 1985 Yamaha C5 - 70% off
by newer player - 04/01/20 12:13 PM
Suggestion on what to buy...used Kawai CA67 or
by Rockappalla - 04/01/20 08:23 AM
Yamaha P515 v. Kawai Es8
by MacDaddyGator - 04/01/20 07:12 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,838
Posts2,940,916
Members96,437
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3