2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
62 registered members (3am_stargazing, Anglagard44, Balcon, ChatNoir, Barrett Bonden, computerpro3, Carey, Charles Cohen, 12 invisible), 466 guests, and 407 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Grand piano touch too light #2950352 02/22/20 10:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
C
Coda9 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
Is there more than one way to increase the touch weight on a grand piano ? I’m familiar with the lead weights used but my technician mentioned another solution which I don’t remember exactly to describe it . This piano’s action touch weight is 38 which is overly light and distracting when I play . I practice major classical literature 3 to 5 hours a day and would like to reset the touch weight to about 45- ish. Are there various methods for changing how the pianos touch feels light or heavy?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2950362 02/22/20 11:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,148
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,148
Originally Posted by Coda9
Is there more than one way to increase the touch weight on a grand piano ? I’m familiar with the lead weights used but my technician mentioned another solution which I don’t remember exactly to describe it . This piano’s action touch weight is 38 which is overly light and distracting when I play . I practice major classical literature 3 to 5 hours a day and would like to reset the touch weight to about 45- ish. Are there various methods for changing how the pianos touch feels light or heavy?


I call them "flyaway" actions. Although I tend to favor moderate hammer mass, I have found in this situation that the most straightforward fix is simply to attach mini binder clips to the shank just by the hammer head. You can play with the size of the binder clip and how far out the shank you put them to dial in the touch resistance you are looking for.

Other options of adding lead in various places are not likely to satisfy and I don't recommend those schemes -- even if they provide a supposedly "ideal" static measurement of touch resistance.

Additionally, this approach is both cheap (2 dozen clips for something like $1 or so?) and completely reversible. If you don't like it, just pull them off. If you try a few and think it's an improvement, then of course you have to remove the "handles" of the clips -- easily accomplished with pliers, or even fingers. Re-installing the handles in order to remove the clips takes a bit longer than removing them but it is definitely reversible.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2950365 02/22/20 11:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,173
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,173
Start by regulating the action, before you do anything else.


Semipro Tech
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: BDB] #2950374 02/23/20 12:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,148
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,148
Originally Posted by BDB
Start by regulating the action, before you do anything else.

Well, yes. BDB is right. And this includes (perhaps counterintuitively given the complaint) thorough cleaning and lubrication.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2950481 02/23/20 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 22
M
MarkTuner Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 22
My 1962 Baldwin's hammers are on their last leg, I had to shave so much from the hammers to get a natural shape due to a previous tech carelessly misshaping them, and they appeared to have had maintenance a few times previous to that. The action was much too light. Starting in the tenor section and going through extreme treble binder clips helped balance out the touchweight, so it is a possible remedy. But as others have said, proper regulation should be checked, perhaps pinning in the action; because the hammer flanges, whippens, etc. can't be too loose but it would need a tech to troubleshoot what's going on. In the original post one of the questions was if there was more than one way to increase the touchweight on an action, another way is the TouchRail. It can increase or decrease the touchweight, while I don't have personal experience with this they do recommend the action be regulated first. However, the ideal solution would be to have an action that doesn't need accessories to perform within normal specifications.

This post did remind me of Horowitz's piano being said to have an extremely light action later in his career, though there would be other areas in an action like that that would need attending to in order to preserve proper dynamics and playability. I personally like a light action, but 38 touchweight does seem too light, especially for classical which tends to use a broad spectrum of dynamics.


Associate Member, PTG
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2950510 02/23/20 12:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,480
G
Gene Nelson Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,480
A touch weight of 38 I assume is the measured down weight with dampers raised for the average key??
This could also indicate excessive key leads.
At least one manufacturer will resort to key leads as opposed to good action geometry.
But 38 is excessive.
In my experience, 45 ish is also excessive.
But these numbers have little meaning unless the action is regulated and hammers haven’t been filed to almost nothing (as mentioned) and friction in the moving parts is under control.


RPT
PTG Member
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2951223 02/25/20 01:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
C
Coda9 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
To reassure you, the instrument’s action was regulated last year with new hammers and new key bushings. This pianos action has always repeated very well even before it was regulated last year .
MarkTuner Referred to another method of adjusting the touchweight feel which he named as “TouchRail— can anyone offer description or experience and describe what this is ?

Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2951435 02/25/20 03:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,148
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,148
Originally Posted by Coda9
To reassure you, the instrument’s action was regulated last year with new hammers and new key bushings. This pianos action has always repeated very well even before it was regulated last year .
MarkTuner Referred to another method of adjusting the touchweight feel which he named as “TouchRail— can anyone offer description or experience and describe what this is ?


It's a set of springs that are mounted in a replacement to the key upstop rail. Quite easy to do. However...
This is not likely to be as satisfactory as using the binder clips and will be a significantly greater cost. It could slow repetition whereas the binder clips could improve repetition (irrelevant if the action is already faster than maximum human input, anyway).

(And, actually, the TouchRail is generally intended for actions with too much playing resistance -- not too little. )


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2951438 02/25/20 03:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 315
Emery Wang Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 315
Would removing front key leads help? If there is a 10g key lead near the front of each key, removing it should increase the touchweight by about that amount, no? I imagine Ed McMorrow wouldn't mind having this problem, as it would save him a lot of hammer grinding and reshaping smile


Kawai MP11SE
souped up Kawai GL10
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Coda9] #2951623 02/26/20 12:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,495
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,495
Emery has the point. Remove the front most key lead and the DW will rise around 10grams. You need the proper tools and technique for doing this so you don't ruin the keysticks.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Grand piano touch too light [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2953162 03/01/20 03:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
C
Coda9 Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
Thank you all this has been a really informative and helpful response to my situation of the action being so flyweight . I am planning on asking the technician who did recent voicing to help mgive the action a reasonable added resistance.


Moderated by  Piano World 

Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
(ad)
Pianoforall
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
MIDI Controller + Piano software? Help.
by Pil3up - 04/01/20 12:55 PM
Kawai VT: so... no Android app, uh?
by Ragtime2k - 04/01/20 12:41 PM
8DIO 1985 Yamaha C5 - 70% off
by newer player - 04/01/20 12:13 PM
Suggestion on what to buy...used Kawai CA67 or
by Rockappalla - 04/01/20 08:23 AM
Yamaha P515 v. Kawai Es8
by MacDaddyGator - 04/01/20 07:12 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,838
Posts2,940,916
Members96,437
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3