2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
87 members (anotherscott, Animisha, Anglagard44, Barrett Bonden, BadDude, 22138, BeeZee4, 19 invisible), 500 guests, and 451 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
#2949621 02/20/20 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
I've been "renovating" the action on my 1965 Steinway D. It was in poor state but not beyond reviving. I could keep the whippens and hammers but knuckles were flat and backchecks worn through to the red felt. When I bought it I noticed that new ivory was fited, Cites and all. But the job hasn't been completed as the sides and at the front it had square edges. It was easy to get fingers stuck and even get hurt. Also the tops where very slightly wider than the wood. So I worked maybe 10 days to make every key a bit wider using super glue. I got great results, but I used 8-10 grits from 120 to 5000. Totally insane I suppose, but they came out smoother than a...well, no need to overemphasize. There is a color difference but I like it. It tells about my work. Also, I rounded the edges copying or emulating the look of the keys of a Yamaha C7 and a Steinway O. Did all this by hand, of course.
A while ago I had cleaned the action frame, felts, pins, backrail felt. Then I changed all backchecks with new but kept the old wires. Backchecks removal took a whole day, maybe 10 hours. I have no jigs to do it fast using power tools. So I put some bits of wood in a vice to hold the backchecks and rotated the key.
Now the crazy part. On the 20th of December I decided I will rebush all shanks. 88. It took a whole day to have done 8 shanks. 3 were good. I am a doctor in bushing now. Pity I'll never do this again, not for anything in the world. I was finished after 29 days. Sometimes from 6 in the morning until 4-5 in the afternoon. I made a lot of experiments with alcohol and water, different pin sizes, drying with hot air or leaving until next day. A lot of birdseyes to resize with glue too. After I had done all I could see that 35 were no good. Trying to save material I used bits that were too thin by repeatedly threading through the holes. So the centerpiins were on one side. But now I was an expert, so I attacked the task. Every day I said, today I put back the hammers. But in the evening, ok, tomorrow. It went like this for two weeks.
Finally, done! I don't give a... that some swing 4 times, other 8 or 10. That's it, I've had it.
Next, new knuckles. Three days. On the 4th day I put glue on the sides of the knuckles, as I didn't use enough glue from the begining. Glue is expensive! Moron!
Now everything is back in the piano. I read again tons on regulation and proceeded.

Sorry, I fall asleep while writing. To be continued...

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949658 02/20/20 11:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,997
P
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,997
Jinorden,

Wow! You certainly do have a persistent spirit. It sounds like that piano has been eaten to death. Keep up the good work!

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949665 02/21/20 12:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,139
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,139
Awesome write up. Post some photos when you can please.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949668 02/21/20 12:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,555
E
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,555
Congratulations on your persistence! Persistence is a prime component of success.

However, are there any Technicians near enough to you to get some tutelage on tasks?

Also, the single most important skill for a Piano Technician to have is knowing what work is needed to make a piano perform and endure well.

The foundation for this is supreme skill in tone regulation.

That is why there are so few truly great piano technicians.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
newer player #2949676 02/21/20 01:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by newer player
Awesome write up. Post some photos when you can please.


Thanks newer player
Yes, I will post pictures, cause if someone else wrote that but no pictures I'd say it's bs.
I hesitated for a while to write about what I'm doing because it might look like I'm mighty proud of myself and fishing for praise from the real technicians. I'm really not, and rather expected some ''I told you so'' reactions or ''You're over your head''.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
Ed McMorrow, RPT #2949682 02/21/20 02:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Congratulations on your persistence! Persistence is a prime component of success.

However, are there any Technicians near enough to you to get some tutelage on tasks?

Also, the single most important skill for a Piano Technician to have is knowing what work is needed to make a piano perform and endure well.

The foundation for this is supreme skill in tone regulation.

That is why there are so few truly great piano technicians.



Thanks Ed! About other technicians, this is Sweden, people are not so open to things that look like a complication.
On the other hand I have been studying for 11 years or more, did repair jobs and tuned for people, churches and my own pianos. I'm a pianoplayer with a great love for the instrument and know a lot, but not a real technician.

I wrote that the action was in a poor state. I realized it can be misinterpreted as meaning the piano was. No, the piano is in great condition. but someone really played on it hard. Knuckles, backchecks and hammers, very worn. But I like the way the hammers sound, especially last two upper sections. So my plan was to preserve the sound but fix stuck notes (flat knuckles), edgy keys, friction problems, improve regulatiion, in other words improve playability. No way can I take it from scratch and come up with a great instrument.
Today will post pictures and some audio. But I've been changing front rail punchings and fidling with letoff, drop and aftertouch, therefore some hammers bobble, some tend to block on strings, tuning problems here and there. Still, sounds great in it's own way, a bit mufffled in the tenor.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949753 02/21/20 09:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,997
P
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,997
My previous post should have read: "beaten to death" rather than "eaten to death". For some reason my computer "spellcheck" seems to do this sort of thing regularly. Even, it seems, after I post. Probably most realized what I was trying to say though.

I have often found that when I come across a piano that has in fact been beaten (played) intensely, this is usually a sign that it is a very good instrument...somebody REALLY liked it! Looking forward to hearing you play it. 😁

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949774 02/21/20 10:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
I'm just now transfering the pictures I took from the phone to computer. Maybe in 20 minutes up to an hour, I'll upload somewhere so you get links.
I already made some recordings, don't like it yet, I get a bit nervous when I know the whole pianoworld can listen. So I'll do some more takes tonight. Of course I can demonstrate how the piano sounds, some chords, scales, but what's the fun in that? smile

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949802 02/21/20 12:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Here you go:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lq2AABpQR4W3oD548

Please see last photo. Sostenuto rod on braces on a Hamburg?

Audio coming in a few hours.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949814 02/21/20 01:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,139
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,139
Great photos and narrative jinorden. That is a wonderful kitchen BTW.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949935 02/21/20 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Thanks new player! smile

Today from 8 in the morning to maybe 14, with interruptions, I recorded a lot on the Steinway. Everything worthless. But tonight, after some other two hours of playing I'm sure I have some stuff that I can post.
But I have to go through and take some parts that I am not ashamed of and upload somewhere. I'll be touring with a big band until 1 may beginning tomorrow, but I'll take the hard drives and laptop with me. So while I procrastinate I will 100% post as promised, Peter!
The action is not functioning like it should, I have more then 11mm dip, aftertouch is still all over the place, drop is low for the moment to not interfere with letoff so that makes for a more difficult experience once I press rec.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2949988 02/21/20 11:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,555
E
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,555
The hammer rail has a crack in it. Hope your touring gig goes well!


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2950022 02/22/20 02:29 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 179
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by jinorden
Here you go:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lq2AABpQR4W3oD548

Please see last photo. Sostenuto rod on braces on a Hamburg?

Audio coming in a few hours.


Ouch, the flange rail needs to be replaced...

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
Ken Iisaka #2950023 02/22/20 02:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,403
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,403
It does not need to be replaced, but it could be.

Last edited by BDB; 02/22/20 02:31 AM.

Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2950040 02/22/20 04:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Yes, when I took the photo I focused on the crack but then I forgot to tell you. I think I can repair it by soldering it. First I leave it and see how it progresses. Worst case, I have to change it. My Steinway O had a whippen rail that was soldered at a wrong angle, enough to give a spread of 109. Couldn't figure out why it felt so bad playing it. I repaired it myself by disassembling and repositioning it, and I'm proud to say it came out very good, not sure you can tell it was worked on.
Thanks everybody for taking the time to check and give feedback.

PS. The O has angled capstans but someone installed whippens with straight heels. At Steinway a few years ago they said it cannot work well like that. But I don't believe it. What do you think? I don't want to drill and plug keys, I hate the look. Rather buy angled heel whippens. Maybe old ones on ebay if they still sell them.

Last edited by jinorden; 02/22/20 04:03 AM. Reason: heel not heal
Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2950048 02/22/20 05:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 397
O
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 397
Uhm, how confident are you that this is a Hamburg Steinway? You can PM me the serial number and I can find out, but I wouldn't be surprised if that serial number belongs to a rosewood Steinway O delivered to Uruguay from NY in the 60s.

And: "Finally, done! I don't give a... that some swing 4 times, other 8 or 10. That's it, I've had it."

that's the part you should re-think. That kind of unevenness in friction cannot be regulated away, it will always bother you.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
Ed McMorrow, RPT #2950050 02/22/20 06:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
The hammer rail has a crack in it. Hope your touring gig goes well!


Thanks Ed! I hope that too.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
OE1FEU #2950052 02/22/20 06:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by OE1FEU
Uhm, how confident are you that this is a Hamburg Steinway? You can PM me the serial number and I can find out, but I wouldn't be surprised if that serial number belongs to a rosewood Steinway O delivered to Uruguay from NY in the 60s.

And: "Finally, done! I don't give a... that some swing 4 times, other 8 or 10. That's it, I've had it."

that's the part you should re-think. That kind of unevenness in friction cannot be regulated away, it will always bother you.


Which one? The photos are of a D. sn 390400. It has a bar with monkey something mounted on the braces behind backchecks. I thought only NY modells had it that way.

The O, the one with angled capstans but strait heels is 267452, bought from a family in Stockholm. Great instrument too. Hard to imagine any Uruguay connection.

I know, you are right but I'll put new hammers, Abel natural and new shanks eventually. This was for educational purposes.
Have to go, 210 km to drive. Thanks everyone!

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2950067 02/22/20 08:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 397
O
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 397
I wasn't aware of the O at all, I just gave it as an example of a strange D that I encountered and that this D's fake serial came from an O in Rosewood shipped to Uruguay. I'll check 390400 next week.

The Abel replacement for the D is a good idea and altogether it's quite a feat to rework an action the way you did.

Re: Steinway D undergoing action reconditioning
jinorden #2950071 02/22/20 08:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,861
Nothing useful to add, but a good D is a wondrous thing. I have a feeling the OP will leave no stone unturned to get it playing well.

Last edited by johnstaf; 02/22/20 08:57 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Musician's Hand Sanitizer available in our online store (and our Maple Street Music shop in Cornish Maine). Antibacterial, 62% ethyl alcohol. Hand Sanitizer for Musicians
Tons more music related products in our online store!
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Mozart sonatas - Barenreiter vs. Wiener
by skern49 - 05/28/20 01:52 PM
Native Instruments 50% off upgrades and updates
by newer player - 05/28/20 01:26 PM
Question for Rich about Yamaha
by Joseph Fleetwood - 05/28/20 12:32 PM
TIPS: Latency and UVI Workstation Ravenscroft
by Bruce In Philly - 05/28/20 10:41 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics199,235
Posts2,963,180
Members97,214
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4