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Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949588 02/20/20 06:27 PM
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That fall board decal is not original to this piano.


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Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
P W Grey #2949596 02/20/20 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Yes, this is an early style that had an adjustable soundboard mechanism in the bass corner.
Pwg

This is very intriguing. What was to be adjusted, and why?

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949598 02/20/20 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Yes, this is an early style that had an adjustable soundboard mechanism in the bass corner.
Pwg

This is very intriguing. What was to be adjusted, and why?

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949657 02/20/20 10:17 PM
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I suspect that it was SUPPOSED to be able to tweak the sound board tension/compression. I don't know this for a fact. But they did discontinue it "for a reason".

Keith Kerman might be able to answer this more authoritatively.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 02/20/20 10:17 PM.

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Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949757 02/21/20 08:35 AM
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I have sent a message asking the serial number.
One of their employees might be a member here, or at least a reader. The price tag has changed today. It more than doubled.

-----
I am not sure to have understood correctly. Since when did Steinway put their name on the frame? 1880? Or later?

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949821 02/21/20 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Man
I have sent a message asking the serial number.
One of their employees might be a member here, or at least a reader. The price tag has changed today. It more than doubled.

I would walk away on the strength of this alone. This dealer is playing games. Even if it was a genuine Steinway, the idea that a not recently restored piano of that age would suddenly be worth doubling the price is preposterous.

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949863 02/21/20 02:59 PM
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I would walk away too.

Like many here, I suppose, I just browse the ads out of curiosity, without actually willing to purchase. Although I do not post much, I read many of the interesting threads here. One of them was about fake Steinways. When I saw this piano, I was intrigued. I did not know those frames without name casted.
As I remember, the initial price tag was equivalent to about USD 4.2k. It is true that the ad does not mention any repair of any sort, so I thought that a low price was consistent with a core piano. But it seems, to my layman's eyes, that the soundboard has been repaired, the strings seem clean, and the dampers aligned. And why would a dealer sell a core piano? Is it common practice? Is not it more profitable to repair and sell at a premium? That is when I remembered that thread about the fake Steinways. I do not know whether this one is genuine or not, but it still is intriguing to me.

Today, before I ask the serial number, it was close to USD 9k.
Strange things happen. Perhaps a typo?

Last edited by Man; 02/21/20 02:59 PM. Reason: typo
Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949904 02/21/20 04:51 PM
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I would call SS and report it. They specifically told us techs in their letter that if we suspected something like this (which, if it is a fake, is precisely the type of issue they they CLAIM they want to litigate to protect their trademark), we should report it to them so they can take the appropriate legal action.

Pwg


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Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949909 02/21/20 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Man
I would walk away too.

Like many here, I suppose, I just browse the ads out of curiosity, without actually willing to purchase. Although I do not post much, I read many of the interesting threads here. One of them was about fake Steinways. When I saw this piano, I was intrigued. I did not know those frames without name casted.
As I remember, the initial price tag was equivalent to about USD 4.2k. It is true that the ad does not mention any repair of any sort, so I thought that a low price was consistent with a core piano. But it seems, to my layman's eyes, that the soundboard has been repaired, the strings seem clean, and the dampers aligned. And why would a dealer sell a core piano? Is it common practice? Is not it more profitable to repair and sell at a premium? That is when I remembered that thread about the fake Steinways. I do not know whether this one is genuine or not, but it still is intriguing to me.

Today, before I ask the serial number, it was close to USD 9k.
Strange things happen. Perhaps a typo?

Why not simply post a link to the advert? I assumed that you were being vague about where it’s for sale because perhaps you didn’t want anyone else to scoop it up first (although not likely). For example, it’s a real hassle to copy and post pictures here. But from the above I get the impression that you’re just curious about it potentially being a fake. So I’m puzzled by the obfuscation of where it’s for sale.


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Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2949910 02/21/20 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Man

Today, before I ask the serial number, it was close to USD 9k.
Strange things happen. Perhaps a typo?


Somehow I don't think so.

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Retsacnal #2950031 02/22/20 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal

Why not simply post a link to the advert? I assumed that you were being vague about where it’s for sale because perhaps you didn’t want anyone else to scoop it up first (although not likely). For example, it’s a real hassle to copy and post pictures here. But from the above I get the impression that you’re just curious about it potentially being a fake. So I’m puzzled by the obfuscation of where it’s for sale.


I do not know whether this particular piano is a fake or not. Initially, I was curious to know if it was genuine. After reading some replies, I was wondering if it could be fake (transitioning from positive to negative). Blatantly posting links to commercial websites in a public forum, insinuating that the shop might be a scammer is not good practice, I think. I know the shop exists for some time, maybe decades, but do not know the owners. I guess that I was trying to be cautious in preserving one's reputation.

Should anybody be interested in the link to the ad, I will gladly give it by PM.

NOTE: English is not my primary language, though I use it on a regular basis. I may not grasp double meaning in specific words or phrases, should anything of that sort be written.

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950038 02/22/20 02:44 AM
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If the serial number is about 9000, it would have been made iin 1863 or so. That would have been about the end of the first decade of Steinway's production, before many of the features that make a modern Steinway a Steinway were developed. Clearly it is before the cupola plate, the laminated rim, and other such features.


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Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950082 02/22/20 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Man

I do not know whether this particular piano is a fake or not. Initially, I was curious to know if it was genuine. After reading some replies, I was wondering if it could be fake (transitioning from positive to negative). Blatantly posting links to commercial websites in a public forum, insinuating that the shop might be a scammer is not good practice, I think.


I agree with you. If the shop is acting in good faith, this thread could still taint their reputation. I am much more comfortable discussing it openly if nobody's reputation is at stake.

Last edited by johnstaf; 02/22/20 09:11 AM.
Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950088 02/22/20 09:37 AM
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My two-cents' worth:
The legs and pedal lyre are correct for an 1880's Steinway.
The logo is post-1910 with the lyre omitted.
The plate looks like my 1869 model without the holes, name, and patent dates.
The rim is not thick enough.
I would say this is a fake or a salvage made from several different pianos.
The price for a "carcass" big Steinway seems to be around $6K for early examples. There's an 1860 one that hasn't sold at $18K. A cabriole-leg seven-footer recently sold at $4,500 from a storage company.
How does a "brick and mortar" dealer have a Bechstein wall hanging? I suppose this is a consignment to a local piano store.

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950107 02/22/20 10:31 AM
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On second thought, Steinway never had the treble bridge and stringing extending past the left bass strut, except when they had an additional strut to support the extension. (That is, my 1869 piano doesn't, and the engraving in their 1875 catalog has the additional strut.)
The case molding, if there is one, is not elaborate enough.

Last edited by edferris; 02/22/20 10:34 AM.
Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950176 02/22/20 01:00 PM
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I still have not received any reply from the shop, but found a video of the piano. The brand name is actually embossed on the treble side of the frame.
https://youtu.be/GoF14aRoFvI

Is it a plausible possibility that this piano has been rebuild, perhaps more than once, and not necessarily as per the book? Now it looks "intriguing" therefore not commanding a high price?

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950198 02/22/20 01:39 PM
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This is interesting. Let me deposit my 2 cents here.

In 1875, Steinway did build a piano that matches the 200 cm. length in NY. However, it was also the first piano with a full Cupola plate and it had a continuous bridge (the treble bridge snuck around under the plate and joined the bass bridge).

This piano appears to have neither of those two big identifying features. Now, earlier prototypes were built. I think there were 5, or maybe as many as seven, that this piano might be. But those pianos were earlier than 1875.

There, my 2 cents are deposited.


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Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950217 02/22/20 02:33 PM
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My head is getting dizzy... I still cannot figure out what this piano is.
Anyway, at this point I would like to thank you all very much for your expertise and very educated comments.
I resent the request for the serial number on their e-mail account (I previously sent on the PM system of the advertisement platform).

----
After re-reading all posts, I realized that I forgot to answer some questions.
This piano is advertised in France (a country neighbor to mine) and the shop claims it is an approved center for Bechstein. They sell new and used piano from other brands too (according to their website). I see that they have many shops in France. I am not sure whether it adds something useful to the initial question though.

Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950229 02/22/20 02:58 PM
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I just got a reply from the shop!
The owner has replied, but it seems that he was really tired. Many of the sentences make no sense, or words are misplaced/mistyped.
I will just transcribe what is understandable:


good evening
I did not find a number
There has been a major restoration
Soundboard restored with new steel string and pins
New hammers felt, new dampers
New keyboard mortises
This piano (?was used) for small concerts in a wine estate
The technician deleted the number that was on the soundboard
I date this piano before the 1890s because the metal frame covers the pins
What’s amazing is that it doesn’t sound like a (?old) piano but a modern piano
I have more photos for you on Tuesday
Have a good week-end


He seems to imply that rebuilding/refurbishing has been done, but necessarily by his shop.

... Is it a genuine Steinway or not? The answer might be out of my understanding, after all...

Last edited by Man; 02/22/20 02:59 PM. Reason: rephrasing
Re: Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
Man #2950249 02/22/20 03:35 PM
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Perhaps one can say that it was a genuine Steinway at one time, but now only parts of it are genuine.. However, it doesn't sound bad in the video, and would probably be a nice instrument for someone who doesn't care about authenticity.


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