Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum First Grand Piano for Townhouse - Help Please

Second time trying this after accidentally posting in the digital piano forum. Not the best start for me... I begin by offering my apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. I scrolled through the posts and could not find anything on point. I also apologize for putting some a rookie question into this forum of knowledgeable users, but my google searches for advice are coming up short.

I am looking to purchase a grand piano for my townhouse in NYC. The house is ~20ft wide and ~60 feet deep. The piano will be on the parlor floor, which is essentially divided into two rooms but which has large doors between those rooms such that the floor can function as one large space when entertaining. The parlor floor has ~12ft ceilings. It is a classic city townhouse, with a lot of wood throughout.

For a variety of reasons, mostly due to work and fatherhood, I have not played the piano for many years. Piano was never my primary instrument and my talent level on piano at my absolutely best could fairly be described as horrendous. I would like to improve upon that. My young daughter has been taking lessons for a few years and my son is about to start - they are the more important prospective users.

We would like to purchase a grand piano that serves our family and that could be used when we are entertaining a large number of guests. We'd also like something that looks nice in the space. I have no interest in purchasing multiple pianos for this house so I would like something that is high enough quality that I would not want to upgrade in the future. I want to make sure the volume is adequate and not overpowering.

I am sure that advising me is challenging without a targeted price range, but I am not sure because I am so ignorant in the market. I would be inclined to pay a bit more for something of quality that will last over time, but I also don't want to get fleeced. I suspect that buying something used would be most prudent but I would like advice on that as well. I've purchased many guitars in my life and I've generally preferred to buy used guitars for a variety of reasons beyond just price, including that I find that the used market has generally filtered out construction defects. I don't know whether the same methodology would apply to pianos.

Thank you very much in advance for any advice you could offer.

I’m excited for you and think a grand piano in a New York City townhouse is a dream come true!

My teacher is wonderful and loves to work with adults if you want to go back to lessons. PM me if interested.

I believe my teacher’s restored Steinway came from Cantabile Piano Arts in Yonkers:

http://www.cantabilepianoarts.com

Of course, you have many choices! I don’t know much about grands and play an upright, although a grand remains a dream of mine.

Without a budget it is hard to make any suggestions.

Hakki - I suspected that might be the case. However, with my extreme level of ignorance it is tough to think about the budget because I don't know what I'm paying for.

Are there any trusted resources you might suggest that I could read for advice? Most of the resources that I have found online are either disguised marketing or so vague as to be useless for me - they all basically suggest going to a piano store. That may be the only prudent approach, but a piano salesman has incentives that don't necessarily match my goals and that's not how I've ever educated myself as a consumer for any other product, which is why I am seeking advice here.

The place to start is pianobuyer.com

Read PianoBuyer:

https://www.pianobuyer.com/

LOL. Missed by one second.

Here are some prices:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/brand-profiles/

The first step is to figure out how large an instrument you want. If need be, a space that size could carry a 7' or 9' grand, but there are smaller ones that won't be at all terrible.

Then the budget-- there is the outlay now, what you put into it down the road, and what you get out if there needs to be a change in course.

Of course, if you plan to keep this forever or have relatives who can take it off your hands, the main idea is to get something worth keeping. In times gone by, that meant choosing your model Steinway and not worrying any longer. There are other options, now.

I'll make some suggestions. First, size. Most people like to say "get the biggest piano you can fit." However, the piano will go in your main living space, right? IOW, bedrooms might be on the second level, but the first floor, what you called parlor level, is your living room, kitchen and dining space, right?

If so, get the *smallest* grand that still has nice sound etc, so that the space can adequately serve those other functions.

So, assuming your budget is at minimum $8,000-10,000 and maybe as much as twice that, I would say start looking at:
1. Boston GP grand in the 5'4' range (I can't remember the model number, maybe GP 163 since 163 cm is about 5'4". You will probably want to buy a new piano is you planned to get a Boston, because they just don't show up in the used market at this size. They make bigger grands, but IMO if you're going to get a bigger grand, get a Yamaha or Kawai, if you really want something smaller, the Boston wide tail at this length is a fantastic instrument.

2. Yamaha C2 (5'8') - this is what I have, so I am biased, but this is an awesome piano and a great size. it doesn't fill up the whole room physically, but at this length it's very satisfying to play. There is absolutely no reason not to consider a used piano, mine is 20 y/o (I bought it used last summer).

3. Yamaha C3 - 6'1" I believe. Also a very nice piano.

4. I will let someone else suggest Kawai models to consider. Don't they have one that's more like 6'3" ??

5. Consider a Steinway only if you want to pay a lot for the name (yes, I'm biased, sue me!)

6. Avoid lesser known brands, try to stay 25 years old or newer.

7. Poke around https://www.pianomart.com/ for an idea of brands, ages, lengths and prices.

Now, go play some pianos and see what you like, and how much are the prices for the ones you like. Then, considering what you learned, start trying to settle on a budget. If you are happy with a used instrument, then think about something in the $10,000 range. If you want a new instrument, obviously it will be more and you may want to include some brands that I haven't mentioned.

Once you've settled on a budget and have an idea of the brands you like, find an independent piano tech to evaluate any instrument before purchase.

So, that's my advice for someone just starting the search with zero idea of the market.

Good luck and keep us posted!!

If the OP's space is what I'm thinking it is (i.e., it has a sofa, tv, dining table, bookshelves etc) then I think 7' is too big. This isn't a dedicated piano room in a huge house that has a bunch of other rooms, it's one of the only, if not the only, communal living spaces in the house.

Just my take on it though.

BTW, OP: remember that as you get further into your search, you can get a paper template to lay out on the floor to show you the footprint of pianos at various sizes. These are useful to a point, but still don't give a perfect idea of just how much space a grand requires.

Also: is this going to be serious furniture? Do you have friends that will lift their noses if you get, say, an Estonia or Yamaha while all of them have Boesendorfers? When you entertain, will you have a garage band, a jazz pianist, or a chamber group? Is price enough of an issue that you are willing to look for a restored instrument from 70 years ago? (Some of them are fantastic, and are plenty durable enough for a home setting. And you can save many tens of thousands by going that route.)

Here's what I mean by floor template:



Various places sell these templates and some dealers will lend them to you. Here's one for sale I think:
https://gemmpianosupply.com/collections/accessories

Also, when you get further along, you can make something like this:

12 foot ceilings, 20 feet wide and 60 feet long. That’s big.

Let’s cut to the chase. Fazioli.

Hahahaha.

"It is a classic city townhouse, with a lot of wood throughout." With 12' ceilings.

You are describing a multi-multi-million dollar house in NYC.

- Steinway
- Bosendorfer
- Fazioli
- Yamaha

Pick the 7-9 footer that sounds the nicest to you. You have no budget.

+1

Steinway B.

Let wife decide on finish.

Thank you very much. I'll read these resources.

Let me try to answer some of the questions:

- The parlor level is the level of the house that you enter when walking up the stairs from the outside stoop. It is the most formal level of the house, although we are not extremely formal people. It basically contains two living spaces, a small bathroom and semi-formal dining. It does not contain the kitchen, which is located downstairs on the garden level. The garden level also contains another living space. It's a relatively customary layout for a single family townhouse in NYC. From a space standpoint, I think it could hold a fairly large piano if that was desirable but I would want to make sure the volume isn't overpowering.

- I am not too concerned with branding unless a brand serves as an effective proxy for quality. I don't care about someone turning their nose up at a brand. I am much more interested in quality.

- Regarding the question of whether it is a serious piece of furniture, I would like it look nice but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

- I am fine if it is refurbished if that is the best way for me to buy a quality instrument at the best bang for the buck.

- Regarding the assumption on budget, yes, I would assume I would need to pay at least $15-20k for a quality instrument and I would not be surprised if someone suggested it had to be more. I want to know that I am spending my money wisely.

- I am not particularly concerned with resale because I view this purchase as a failure if I am ever reselling it.

Sorry to say this but 15-20k won't get you a "quality" instrument.

Ok if the kitchen is on a separate floor, aim for a 6-7 foot piano.

Yup-- 6'-7' will cover a lot of ground for size. And your house can support the physical container and the noise it makes quite well.

When you check the high-end brands, however, you will find that it ends up costing into six figures if you buy new. Now, a rehabbed Steinway from a really good shop may be half that. And it will sound nice and look like your grandparents were very forward-thinking. Or, you might get a good bargain-ish brand for around the same price.

Hakki - what is an appropriate budget for a quality instrument? I don't have the context on the market or what goes into a quality piano. I also am mindful about not wasting money.