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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: ybtangq] #2946607 02/13/20 11:42 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Originally Posted by ybtangq
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
With four pieces of absorber, each will bear 1/4 of the pianos weight.
The Sorbothane manual recommends that the absorber should be significantly compressed when in use, and is not as effective when not adequately compressed.
So check the specs to find the proper type of absorber for that amount of weight.
Well, you were right. This did not work. When I was practicing today (after almost one week of break), he was banging on the ceiling again. My heart sank when I heard that, because it showed that the platform did not work. I am so sick of it.

Now, back to the issue of compression of Sorbothane, it is very tricky. On one hand, you want "significant compression", but you also want to makes sure that it is not completely compressed (I guess). How does one determine this exactly? On the amazon website, I could see specs regarding load per pad, thickness, and Duro. These factors all interact with each other, making it difficult for me to find the right product.

Duro: I already bought the one with the lowest Duro setting (30), because that means the least stiffness (and more compression).

Regarding weight load per pad and thickness. Yes, there were ones that had a much lower weight load per pad, but they are also very thin such as 0.25 inch. I feared that they would then completely compress, rendering it useless. On the other hand, for the thicker types I ended up buying (0.5 inch), each pad had a very high weigh load (113-227 kg), so that means they probably do not compress enough.

Should I just use the weight load per pad as the sole criterion, and not worry about anything else?
By the way, where can I find the Sorbothane manual?

This is so frustrating ... I probably will buy the Sylomer pads from the German amazon site. At least point, I have already spent about C$150 on this f%cking problem.

I checked online the noise codes in Vancouver a few days ago. What your downstairs neighbor is doing is illegal. I suggest you get the police involved in solving this. They will tell him to stop bothering you by pounding on his ceiling. He is creating more noise for you than you are creating for him.

If it were me, I would force the issue by calling the police every time he pounded on the ceiling and report it. They will come, tell you that they can't do anything because he isn't loud enough and say to him to keep it down, whereupon he will complain about your piano, and they will tell him the same. Rinse and repeat until he cuts it the f*ck out.


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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2946617 02/14/20 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I checked online the noise codes in Vancouver a few days ago. What your downstairs neighbor is doing is illegal. I suggest you get the police involved in solving this. They will tell him to stop bothering you by pounding on his ceiling. He is creating more noise for you than you are creating for him.

If it were me, I would force the issue by calling the police every time he pounded on the ceiling and report it. They will come, tell you that they can't do anything because he isn't loud enough and say to him to keep it down, whereupon he will complain about your piano, and they will tell him the same. Rinse and repeat until he cuts it the f*ck out.


Thank you for your support, and for being on my side. Make no mistake – I was furious myself. There were times when I wanted to stomp on the floor and scream for him to f@ck off. But the issue is more complicated, and escalating it would not do me any service to be honest. For one thing, I think I mentioned that he also has leverage on me as far as noise is concerned. His bathroom fan vibrates my floor, which produces an annoying humming sound throughout my apartment. In Vancouver, he is entitled to use the fan 24 hours per day. Some buildings even REQUIRE residents/tenants to use it fan 24/7 (which is stupid, I think). But I have negotiated with him to at least turn it off from 11 pm to 7 am, which so far, he has been doing somewhat consistently. And if I am sensitive enough to noise to be bothered by his bathroom fan, can I really blame him for being sensitive to the piano vibration that he obviously can hear?

So there you go, the give and take of apartment life, which, if my plans go well, I will not have to deal with in 2-3 years. Fingers crossed ... Sigh ...

Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: CrashTest] #2946637 02/14/20 03:01 AM
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Are you sure the noise your below neighbour is bothered by, is from vibration transmitted through the floor and not airborne thumping/clicking of the key? Maybe, with a friend, ask to hear the sound yourself in your neighbours apartment.

Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: spanishbuddha] #2946639 02/14/20 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Are you sure the noise your below neighbour is bothered by, is from vibration transmitted through the floor and not airborne thumping/clicking of the key? Maybe, with a friend, ask to hear the sound yourself in your neighbours apartment.


Well, he did say that it rattles his ceiling. So that suggests vibration. Whether there is also airborne thumping noise, I don't know. But at some point, I may need to hear it in his apartment.

I did suggest to him that he record the noise in his apartment so that I can hear what he hears. But he does not want to do that. To be fair, noise recording is not always effective.

Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: CrashTest] #2946641 02/14/20 03:21 AM
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Quote
. . . Should I just use the weight load per pad as the sole criterion, and not worry about anything else?


FWIW --

I think that would be a good start. It's the only clear spec you have.

. Charles


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: CrashTest] #2946698 02/14/20 07:40 AM
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I'm sorry if you haven't mentioned this before, butt is it an option to move the piano? A lot of buildings have localized areas which transmit vibrations more.


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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: CrashTest] #2946979 02/14/20 10:24 PM
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I’m amazed that a digital piano is causing so much thumping in the downstairs apartment and that is it all from key noise? I’m wondering what my downstairs neighbors hear from my acoustic upright, lol. It’s a good thing they’re musicians and make their own noise. I just got caster cups put under the piano and I ordered a 5’x8’ thick wool rug to put under the piano.

Can you try a different keyboard stand? What if the keyboard was on a heavy desk?


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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: LarryK] #2946980 02/14/20 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryK

Can you try a different keyboard stand? What if the keyboard was on a heavy desk?


That's a good idea. You either want to absorb the vibrations or spread them out to a greater area to disperse them. If moving the piano is an option, that's something to consider as well.


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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Gombessa] #2946982 02/14/20 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by LarryK

Can you try a different keyboard stand? What if the keyboard was on a heavy desk?


That's a good idea. You either want to absorb the vibrations or spread them out to a greater area to disperse them. If moving the piano is an option, that's something to consider as well.


I have a feeling that the key movement on a massive upright like my U1 would not be transmitted through the floor as easily as the key movement of a keyboard on a light stand. I haven't verified this, though.

Another idea. I bought thick rubber tiles to go under my rowing machine. Those might make the keyboard unstable, though, if the keyboard stand was light. I believe I got them from here: https://www.rubberflooringinc.com/rubber-tiles.html

Last edited by LarryK; 02/14/20 10:46 PM.

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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Gombessa] #2946996 02/14/20 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
I'm sorry if you haven't mentioned this before, butt is it an option to move the piano? A lot of buildings have localized areas which transmit vibrations more.


I live in a small studio, and the piano is currently in the living room. I can move it to another spot of the living room (though I need to move other stuff around to make room), but there is no way to tell if that will make a difference.

Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: CrashTest] #2947003 02/15/20 12:01 AM
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Could you stand in your bad neighbor's apartment while someone (maybe him) pounds on your keys? Then you could move the piano to a different location and rinse & repeat.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2947024 02/15/20 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Could you stand in your bad neighbor's apartment while someone (maybe him) pounds on your keys? Then you could move the piano to a different location and rinse & repeat.


Yes, I guess that could be done, if he is receptive to the idea of letting me hear the noise in his apartment, although I would not trust him with my piano, haha. He probably hates it (and me) at this point.

Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: ybtangq] #2947135 02/15/20 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ybtangq
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Could you stand in your bad neighbor's apartment while someone (maybe him) pounds on your keys? Then you could move the piano to a different location and rinse & repeat.


Yes, I guess that could be done, if he is receptive to the idea of letting me hear the noise in his apartment, although I would not trust him with my piano, haha. He probably hates it (and me) at this point.

Well, what if you agree with a friend to come and be the DP keyboard pounder, and then you go to your neighbors apartment to listen to the sound with him? Two experiments should help determine what is up. And it would show him you are really spending effort on trying to lick his butt and make this work for him (Sorry, I already detest your downstairs neighbor 😡 and if I were you, I'd probably be thinking of ways to fill his door lock with crazy glue... 😈)


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2947136 02/15/20 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
(Sorry, I already detest your downstairs neighbor 😡 and if I were you, I'd probably be thinking of ways to fill his door lock with crazy glue... 😈)

This is why we like you Tyrone. Beneath that kind exterior lies deviousness of a 16yo mean girl wink


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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: CrashTest] #2947161 02/15/20 10:23 AM
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Solution #1: Buy a house all for yourself.
Solution #2: Get a ground-floor apartment.

Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Gombessa] #2947204 02/15/20 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
(Sorry, I already detest your downstairs neighbor 😡 and if I were you, I'd probably be thinking of ways to fill his door lock with crazy glue... 😈)

This is why we like you Tyrone. Beneath that kind exterior lies deviousness of a 16yo mean girl wink

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2947218 02/15/20 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
(Sorry, I already detest your downstairs neighbor 😡 and if I were you, I'd probably be thinking of ways to fill his door lock with crazy glue... 😈)

This is why we like you Tyrone. Beneath that kind exterior lies deviousness of a 16yo mean girl wink

[Linked Image]


LOL. So, we’re on cat duty this week at my guitar ensemble teacher’s apartment. We’re wrangling three cats. I tried to practice for five minutes and one of the cats, the most accomplished one, added this cluster chord with parallel seconds.

[Linked Image]

My wife, in the kitchen preparing the cat food, said, what was that????!!!

I said, well, Schubert didn’t write that.

As for neighbors, I can’t live in conflict with them, I just can’t, it’s not in my nature. I was worried that we would be in a protracted noise war with the downstairs neighbors but we actually bonded over music, and had them over for coffee and cake. It’s better to befriend your neighbors than to fight with them.

My friend with a degree in music composition was in a noise war, Bartok on an upright vs Sweet Honey in the Rock gospel music on a stereo. I don’t know who won.

Last edited by LarryK; 02/15/20 12:29 PM.

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Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: CrashTest] #2947219 02/15/20 12:25 PM
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Hope you can find a solution or compromise. Document by video what you have been trying to do to cover your butt as they say.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2947298 02/15/20 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Sorry, I already detest your downstairs neighbor 😡 and if I were you, I'd probably be thinking of ways to fill his door lock with crazy glue... 😈)


Don't give me any ideas, grin. Have a nice weekend!

Re: Key "Thump" heard downstairs - advice on how to quiet? [Re: ybtangq] #2947390 02/15/20 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ybtangq
This is so frustrating ... I probably will buy the Sylomer pads from the German amazon site. At this point, I have already spent about C$150 on this f%cking problem.

Before I bought a house, I lived in dozens of apartments and condos. Almost all of them were badly soundproofed, even if concrete was used for walls and floors. Efficient soundproofing doesn't cost a few hundreds but thousands and implies to modify the building or room. There are also those big isolating cubes you see at conservatories and universities in which you can place acoustic pianos, but they are expensive and way too big in a studio.

My advice is keep your money to buy a house. As a temporary solution, you could instead buy a good slab DP and many pillows. Then position the new slab DP (or maybe yours can be taken off its stand ?) on layers of pillows placed on a sofa or bed, and some more pillows in the back to dampen the knocking sounds between the DP and the nearest wall. Fugly as heck but inexpensive and possibly more efficient. And even then, your neighbor will decide in the end if it's better or not.

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