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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2945879 02/12/20 07:05 AM
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I had repairs performed by a local company with a Yamaha-trained tech/owner.

To others here on PW ... can you share your repair experiences? Is your repair tech trained by the manufacturer?

This might not be terribly important for repairs on a run-of-the-mill digital. But it is important for the high-end good with acoustic actions.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2945926 02/12/20 10:37 AM
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That’s an interesting story on the used N3. I am far from a pro, so wouldn’t put the same level of use on a piano. I play about an hour to an hour and a half a day, though I would likely play a bit more if I could use headphones (presently have an acoustic). If the new N1X comes well regulated, I might not need to service it for a long time.

I live in an area where we have a Yamaha dealership, so I think I’d be able to get a tech if needed. My present RPT probably won’t work on hybrids. He much prefers acoustic and doesn’t seem interested in the newer technology.

It’s tempting to make a move soon, though I don’t have the cash at the moment. Need to sell some other items to free up funds. I suppose there is not much negotiation on price, since these are in demand. Hopefully I could get a decent amount on a trade-in for my acoustic, which is old but very well cared for, and was refinished when I bought, so it looks great.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: MacMacMac] #2945930 02/12/20 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I had repairs performed by a local company with a Yamaha-trained tech/owner.

To others here on PW ... can you share your repair experiences? Is your repair tech trained by the manufacturer?

This might not be terribly important for repairs on a run-of-the-mill digital. But it is important for the high-end good with acoustic actions.


Yes, the tech I had was trained by Yamaha.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2945935 02/12/20 11:04 AM
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TS, I should’ve mentioned that the N3 is ‘better than the N1X’ over speakers.
It seems to me that not only the amount of speakers, but also their placement is what sets the N3 apart; not to mention that the form factor assists rather than obstruct.
For example, the speakers firing upwards will bounce the sound off the lid and rim of the N3 in a similar manner to an acoustic; incidentally creating naturally occurring resonances and reverberations.

Conversely, the form factor of the N1X/NV10 rather gets in the way, and the engineers are forced to get overly creative to make it -the sound- work.
With the N3 form follows function and things just fall into place naturally; akin to a grand piano action being naturally assisted by gravity, whilst the upright action needs ‘further assistance’, and therefore cannot be as ‘natural’.

These are simply my observations from afar, but it doesn’t help that CG once called the N3 ‘the closest to the real thing’ he’d ever experienced. Yes, this was before he got the N1X, but I wonder how much his onion has changed since. smile

P.S.

When I refer to the N3 it’s implied that the N3X is perhaps even better, but since one can probably get a used N3 for about the price of a new N1X, the comparison between the N3 and N1X makes more sense in terms of choosing one over the other.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2945942 02/12/20 11:14 AM
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I believe the N3 (and N3X by extension, since I haven't tested it) are still the closest digital pianos to the real thing but the question remains: if you will be playing mainly through speakers, why don't you just buy a real grand piano, even if it's a baby grand. The same piano action, the same size, real resonances, a living instrument, similar price. Which is why I find more sense in N1X (and NV10, etc.) because they try to offer as much as possible in a more compact body. And for people like me who also play 99% through headphones, there's not even the need to have speakers. I've recently started thinking about how upright piano actions with devices for better repetition (Steingraeber magnet system, Seiler springs, etc.) might be the best thing in the world. Because you basically have great action comparable to a grand piano one but in a more compact cabinet. Imagine a NU2X or NV6 with such an upgraded upright action: it will be a beautiful piano with harmonious shape, very compact and at the same time very playable and on par with grand piano touch control. I'm all for it.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2945944 02/12/20 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Because you basically have great action comparable to a grand piano one but in a more compact cabinet. Imagine a NU2X or NV6 with such an upgraded upright action: it will be a beautiful piano with harmonious shape, very compact and at the same time very playable and on par with grand piano touch control. I'm all for it.

But a short pivot.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2945949 02/12/20 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Because you basically have great action comparable to a grand piano one but in a more compact cabinet. Imagine a NU2X or NV6 with such an upgraded upright action: it will be a beautiful piano with harmonious shape, very compact and at the same time very playable and on par with grand piano touch control. I'm all for it.

But a short pivot.

The NU1X has short pivot, yes (although I haven't felt it is bad while having it) but for instance the Kawai K300 upright is advertised as having long pivots and if we assume the NV5 uses the same upright action, then it's possible to have long key pivots in an upright piano.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2945950 02/12/20 11:29 AM
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Why, you ask?
Originally Posted by CyberGene
... if you will be playing mainly through speakers, why don't you just buy a real grand piano, even if it's a baby grand.
Maintenance. Tuning.

Digital piano tuners are about as necessary as DVD rewinders. smile

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2945951 02/12/20 11:30 AM
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My friend had his NU1 moved from Switzerland to New York and he thinks that perhaps the tweeters somehow got knocked out in the move because the sound has turned dark. Can anybody give any hints about how this situation might be rectified? He also said that he reset a bunch of options and has no idea how to restore the piano to its factory settings. Does anybody know? Thanks!


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: LarryK] #2945957 02/12/20 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
My friend had his NU1 moved from Switzerland to New York and he thinks that perhaps the tweeters somehow got knocked out in the move because the sound has turned dark. Can anybody give any hints about how this situation might be rectified? He also said that he reset a bunch of options and has no idea how to restore the piano to its factory settings. Does anybody know? Thanks!

Quote
Yamaha Digital Pianos

In order to conduct a factory reset on any Yamaha digital piano, simply turn off the piano and then hold down the highest pitched white key or farthest right white key for 2 to 3 seconds whilst turning the piano back on. And that’s it! No tools, no hassle, it’s that easy. If your piano has an inbuilt screen, such as the CVP Clavinova range, it will notify you that the factory reset has been done so that you’re 100% sure.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2945959 02/12/20 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
My friend had his NU1 moved from Switzerland to New York and he thinks that perhaps the tweeters somehow got knocked out in the move because the sound has turned dark. Can anybody give any hints about how this situation might be rectified? He also said that he reset a bunch of options and has no idea how to restore the piano to its factory settings. Does anybody know? Thanks!

Quote
Yamaha Digital Pianos

In order to conduct a factory reset on any Yamaha digital piano, simply turn off the piano and then hold down the highest pitched white key or farthest right white key for 2 to 3 seconds whilst turning the piano back on. And that’s it! No tools, no hassle, it’s that easy. If your piano has an inbuilt screen, such as the CVP Clavinova range, it will notify you that the factory reset has been done so that you’re 100% sure.


Awesome, thank you!!!


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2945963 02/12/20 11:53 AM
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Larry, on the NU1X the board that's facing you (don't know the proper name, the vertical one in front of you) has the tweeters attached on it and if you remove it, you have to disconnect cables. I remember I opened my NU1X to look inside and removed that board. Then when putting it back I forgot to connect the cables and I immediately noticed the piano having dark sound and figured out what happened. In order to check whether cables are disconnected, one can only remove the top board (by unscrewing a few screws in the back and then slide the top board front or back, can't remember) and check for the cables.

Last edited by CyberGene; 02/12/20 11:54 AM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: MacMacMac] #2945965 02/12/20 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Why, you ask?
Originally Posted by CyberGene
... if you will be playing mainly through speakers, why don't you just buy a real grand piano, even if it's a baby grand.
Maintenance. Tuning.

Digital piano tuners are about as necessary as DVD rewinders. smile

Beside the maintenance and tuning, the N3's look also serves well as a decor in a room, especially if there's a prominent place for it in your house where it would look really nice.

But that aside, I do use my N3 in headphones mode when I practice. But after I've practiced a piece well enough, I enjoy playing it on the speakers from then on.

So yeah, you wouldn't want to buy it if you play almost exclusively via headphones due to sound constraints because of neighbors perhaps. But if you don't have this problem like I don't, there's still value in getting something like an N3 over an acoustic so you can practice in silent before you master a piece well enough to play out loud. Sometimes when I'm home alone, I do practice without headphones as well.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2945966 02/12/20 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Larry, on the NU1X the board that's facing you (don't know the proper name, the vertical one in front of you) has the tweeters attached on it and if you remove it, you have to disconnect cables. I remember I opened my NU1X to look inside and removed that board. Then when putting it back I forgot to connect the cables and I immediately noticed the piano having dark sound and figured out what happened. In order to check whether cables are disconnected, one can only remove the top board (by unscrewing a few screws in the back and then slide the top board front or back, can't remember) and check for the cables.


You are terrific. Thanks! I will forward this post to my friend. He loves his NU1, by the way, and has been playing for over fifty years. These days, he’s working on algorithmic composition, amazing stuff.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2945974 02/12/20 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene

The NU1X has short pivot, yes (although I haven't felt it is bad while having it) but for instance the Kawai K300 upright is advertised as having long pivots and if we assume the NV5 uses the same upright action, then it's possible to have long key pivots in an upright piano.


Playing the NU1 into the fallboard is much easier for me than playing a Casio or other short-pivot digital action. I'm not sure what it is, perhaps the fact that the NU1 is a stiffer/heavier action to begin with, so there's less perceived difference between front and back of keys?

But I have to wonder, uprights have been around for a while. If they're so deficient compared to grands, why hasn't there been a standardized double-repetition solution already? Or even before that question, why aren't (varied) double repetition solutions more common? It sounds like there are a few bespoke solutions from high-end makers, but nobody is falling over each other trying to eliminate this shortcoming. I have to wonder if it's really as much of a problem as it's made out to be here?

As for myself, I just like the feel of a grand action more, I've never been close to exceeding the limits of a typical upright, and I doubt I ever will be...


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2945977 02/12/20 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I believe the N3 (and N3X by extension, since I haven't tested it) are still the closest digital pianos to the real thing


....nuff’ said! I’m selling my van for an N3! I’m also mounting a Mac Mini under the piano to run Pianoteq 7 through the speakers (blending/mixing with the on-board sound; hence, rendering the need for the ‘X’ physically modeled resonances obsolete. Take that, N3X! grin

I’m giddy with excitement; though I should be crying considering I will no longer be living in a van down by the river, but instead will be trading my van and the river (great view) for an N3 under a bridge!

Now that I think about it, I best wait until I can afford at least a studio apartment before making the trade because the N3 will not look very good under a bridge! laugh

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2945982 02/12/20 12:31 PM
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After playing an N3/N3X, I'm not quite sure where I stand on it. While it's great, at the bench there was never a moment when I thought I could be sitting and playing an acoustic grand. It still sounded like the sound was coming out of speakers. I wasn't focusing on the N3 series at the time so I didn't spend much time with it, just confirmed it was very similar to the N2, which had my main attention. I would probably agree that it's the best digital you can buy, but to me it's still much closer to a digital sounding instrument than an acoustic one.

I don't know how it would sound to an audience (I'm guessing much more grand-like) but my entire focus is on the player perspective, and IMHO the only digitals that ever fool me into thinking they're acoustics are the "silent pianos"/transacoustic types that have speakers stuffed in with real acoustic frame/strings/soundboard.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2945989 02/12/20 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Larry, on the NU1X the board that's facing you (don't know the proper name, the vertical one in front of you) has the tweeters attached on it and if you remove it, you have to disconnect cables. I remember I opened my NU1X to look inside and removed that board. Then when putting it back I forgot to connect the cables and I immediately noticed the piano having dark sound and figured out what happened. In order to check whether cables are disconnected, one can only remove the top board (by unscrewing a few screws in the back and then slide the top board front or back, can't remember) and check for the cables.


So my friend told me that he realized that the dark sound is also there while playing with headphones, so, hmm, any idea why that would happen? I guess it’s not the tweeter connection.

Last edited by LarryK; 02/12/20 12:45 PM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2946400 02/13/20 12:52 PM
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Una Corda pedal stuck or connection shorted? Other than that I can't think of anything but "settings". The samples are the samples and I imagine (but don't know) that the amplifier circuits for the headphones and speakers are separate.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2946623 02/14/20 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m also mounting a Mac Mini under the piano to run Pianoteq 7 through the speakers (blending/mixing with the on-board sound; hence, rendering the need for the ‘X’ physically modeled resonances obsolete. Take that, N3X! grin

Is there any reason you favor the Mac Mini instead of a dedicated Raspberry Pi? It would save you some money in your situation.

Do you have a recording of on-board sound + PTQ blend?

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