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Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896633 10/03/19 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
So in the scenario that I described here, could I use an ADI2 instead of a Babyface Pro? I thought an ADI2 is only an external DAC and wouldn't be able to support everything I needed.
Sorry, maybe I lost something?
What do you need to do for the interface connected to the DP? Need to connect other external instrument or microphone to mix?

I need to collect the two mics but I don't want to mix them in with the piano. I only mix the mics in with the piano if I am making a video (for example, if I am using Zoom.us for a piano lesson). Otherwise I would like to: [list] [*] Collect each mic output and digitise into a mono stream for input to the PC



Tyrone, it's usually better to take a single mic (left or right) instead of mixing two spaced mics down to mono.

For your N1X output, take left or right. From VSL Synchron, unless it's the mics at the player position (which aren't spaced), again choose one side.

If you collapse spaced mic pairs to mono it won't sound good. Spaced pairs aren't mono compatible.

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Re: VSL Steinway D - released
johnstaf #2896634 10/03/19 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by robinlb
Sorry, maybe I lost something?
What do you need to do for the interface connected to the DP? Need to connect other external instrument or microphone to mix?
I need to collect the two mics but I don't want to mix them in with the piano. I only mix the mics in with the piano if I am making a video (for example, if I am using Zoom.us for a piano lesson). Otherwise I would like to: [list] [*] Collect each mic output and digitise into a mono stream for input to the PC
Tyrone, it's usually better to take a single mic (left or right) instead of mixing two spaced mics down to mono.

Thanks, I was actually going to leave both mics and not mix them to mono. So stereo. But if it would be mono, then of course, I'd only take one. But for example, if I were going to make a stereo recording, I would just leave both.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
For your N1X output, take left or right.

If I want stereo from the N1X, would I still only take one of left or right? Because then I would have the same in both channels.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
From VSL Synchron, unless it's the mics at the player position (which aren't spaced), again choose one side.

Why, if I want stereo would I only choose one side? In fact, robinlb says 5.1 is supported by VSL. I don't understand if I have stereo speakers, why I would put the same mono output into each of the L & R speakers.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
If you collapse spaced mic pairs to mono it won't sound good. Spaced pairs aren't mono compatible.

So are you saying that if I want a stereo mic, I have to buy a stereo mic? That two mono mics together do not a stereo mic make?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Pete14 #2896640 10/03/19 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14

If your daughter felt the ‘feeling of walking late at night’, there must be something wrong with the VSL, for Beethoven wrote this piece during daylight. The moon had nothing to do with it! wink


It represents an understanding from a child, but what I feel when I play is solemn and serene.
No matter when he wrote this piece, at least the 1st mvt let me see the moonlight wink
Of course, if I change to Bluthner1895, that may be another feeling.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896642 10/03/19 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by robinlb
Sorry, maybe I lost something?
What do you need to do for the interface connected to the DP? Need to connect other external instrument or microphone to mix?
I need to collect the two mics but I don't want to mix them in with the piano. I only mix the mics in with the piano if I am making a video (for example, if I am using Zoom.us for a piano lesson). Otherwise I would like to: [list] [*] Collect each mic output and digitise into a mono stream for input to the PC
Tyrone, it's usually better to take a single mic (left or right) instead of mixing two spaced mics down to mono.

Thanks, I was actually going to leave both mics and not mix them to mono. So stereo. But if it would be mono, then of course, I'd only take one. But for example, if I were going to make a stereo recording, I would just leave both.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
For your N1X output, take left or right.

If I want stereo from the N1X, would I still only take one of left or right? Because then I would have the same in both channels.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
From VSL Synchron, unless it's the mics at the player position (which aren't spaced), again choose one side.

Why, if I want stereo would I only choose one side? In fact, robinlb says 5.1 is supported by VSL. I don't understand if I have stereo speakers, why I would put the same mono output into each of the L & R speakers.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
If you collapse spaced mic pairs to mono it won't sound good. Spaced pairs aren't mono compatible.

So are you saying that if I want a stereo mic, I have to buy a stereo mic? That two mono mics together do not a stereo mic make?


I probably misunderstood you. If you are mixing a stereo track to mono, it usually sounds worse than just taking left or right and using that as your mono signal. For a stereo recording take both left and right.

You don't need a stereo mic for stereo. Just one mic going to the left channel and one going to the right.

5.1 is for a multi-speaker setup. The effect of collapsing 5.1 to a pair of speakers is unpredictable.

Last edited by johnstaf; 10/03/19 06:06 AM.
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896645 10/03/19 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I need to collect the two mics but I don't want to mix them in with the piano. I only mix the mics in with the piano if I am making a video (for example, if I am using Zoom.us for a piano lesson). Otherwise I would like to:
  • Collect each mic output and digitise into a mono stream for input to the PC
  • Collect my N1X analog audio output and digitise into a mono stream for input to the PC
  • Collect my N1X MIDI output for input to the PC
  • Take a stereo output from the PC and convert to analog for my headphones via a separate headphone amp (possibly, after performing other PC-level processing such as binaural, etc.)
  • Take either a stereo output, or a 5.1 surround output, from the PC (at my option) and convert to analog for the appropriate stereo or 5.1 surround speakers (will likely go through an appropriate, separate amplifier before going to any actual speakers)

The above is all I can think of needing to so with my external audio interface (Babyface Pro). Is there something else useful I could be doing with it?


Understood,, so many! eek
I guess RME UCX can cover your requirements, including 5.1surround for VSL.
If you want high quality sound for ur main front monitors, digital cable connect it to your Benchmark DAC. Your N1x can be as the center speaker in 5.1

Last edited by robinlb; 10/03/19 06:14 AM.

CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
angmyu #2896649 10/03/19 06:27 AM
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I'm sorry johnstaf and robinlb, I screwed up what I'm trying to do. (Now I see why johnstaf was confused about mono vs. stereo! It was all my fault!) Here it is corrected. I would like to:
  • Collect each mic output and digitise each into a separate digital mono data stream for input to the PC (for purposes of reconstructing stereo mics later in the PC, if desired)
  • Collect my N1X analog audio output and digitise into a digital stereo data stream for input to the PC
  • Collect my N1X MIDI output for input to the PC
  • Take a stereo output from the PC and convert to analog for my headphones via a separate headphone amp (possibly, after performing other PC-level processing such as binaural, etc.)
  • Take either a stereo output, or a 5.1 surround output, from the PC (at my option) and convert to analog for the appropriate stereo or 5.1 surround speakers (will likely go through an appropriate, separate amplifier before going to any actual speakers)

I corrected the first 3 bullets.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896650 10/03/19 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm sorry johnstaf and robinlb, I screwed up what I'm trying to do. (Now I see why johnstaf was confused about mono vs. stereo! It was all my fault!) Here it is corrected. I would like to:
  • Collect each mic output and digitise into a separate mono streams for input to the PC (for purposes of reconstructing stereo mic later, if desired)
  • Collect my N1X analog audio output and digitise into a digital stereo data stream for input to the PC
  • Collect my N1X MIDI output for input to the PC
  • Take a stereo output from the PC and convert to analog for my headphones via a separate headphone amp (possibly, after performing other PC-level processing such as binaural, etc.)
  • Take either a stereo output, or a 5.1 surround output, from the PC (at my option) and convert to analog for the appropriate stereo or 5.1 surround speakers (will likely go through an appropriate, separate amplifier before going to any actual speakers)

I corrected the first 3 bullets.


Yep. That should all be doable. grin

Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896662 10/03/19 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm sorry johnstaf and robinlb, I screwed up what I'm trying to do. (Now I see why johnstaf was confused about mono vs. stereo!


I'm not confused ;), and guess you'll get it clear when you actually do it.
All is AD/DA procedure indeed.


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896680 10/03/19 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm sorry johnstaf and robinlb, I screwed up what I'm trying to do. (Now I see why johnstaf was confused about mono vs. stereo! It was all my fault!) Here it is corrected. I would like to:
  • Collect each mic output and digitise each into a separate digital mono data stream for input to the PC (for purposes of reconstructing stereo mics later in the PC, if desired)
  • Collect my N1X analog audio output and digitise into a digital stereo data stream for input to the PC
  • Collect my N1X MIDI output for input to the PC
  • Take a stereo output from the PC and convert to analog for my headphones via a separate headphone amp (possibly, after performing other PC-level processing such as binaural, etc.)
  • Take either a stereo output, or a 5.1 surround output, from the PC (at my option) and convert to analog for the appropriate stereo or 5.1 surround speakers (will likely go through an appropriate, separate amplifier before going to any actual speakers)

I corrected the first 3 bullets.

You can do all of that with the BabyFace Pro out of the box.

Except the 5.1 surround. That requires 6 channels out so would require an extension box (as the BabyFace Pro only has 4 channels of analogue out) or a pcie card if you go the RME approach.

Other brand external USB interfaces with good form factors might provide more analogue channels and good latency, so you could check the GS database for ideas.

There might be some ThunderBolt options but you need to confirm (1) that your AMD system has a Thunderbolt card and (2) that the TB software is not just for OSX (there are some TB interfaces with windows 10 drivers in unfinished beta form that work for some people but not others). Also, if you go the TB approach, I think all the new interfaces are only TB2 but all the new TB cards are TB3, so you would need to buy a TB2 to TB3 adapter cable to connect a TB interface to your computer.

Re: VSL Steinway D - released
newer player #2896785 10/03/19 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Except the 5.1 surround. That requires 6 channels out so would require an extension box (as the BabyFace Pro only has 4 channels of analogue out) or a pcie card if you go the RME approach.

Yeah, as I mention above, I have no free PCIe slots.

Originally Posted by newer player
There might be some ThunderBolt options but you need to confirm (1) that your AMD system has a Thunderbolt card and (2) that the TB software is not just for OSX (there are some TB interfaces with windows 10 drivers in unfinished beta form that work for some people but not others). Also, if you go the TB approach, I think all the new interfaces are only TB2 but all the new TB cards are TB3, so you would need to buy a TB2 to TB3 adapter cable to connect a TB interface to your computer.

Unfortunately, no thunderbolt options. My custom PC builder just told me:
Quote
It has Thunderbolt 3 compatibility, but use of Thunderbolt disables SATA type M.2 drives, which is what will be used for the boot drive and RAID-0 array.


So I guess the Babyface Pro is it for me. I'll order an ADAT external box.

That said, the happy news is my custom PC builder is taking delivery of both of my two Ryzen 3900X CPUs on Monday (!!!) (I'm having him build both a DAW workstation for me with a 3900X and also a media server for my A/V entertainment system also with another 3900X - my current media server is about 7 years old already...) I've had one of these on backorder since the 7th of July. On Monday when they arrive, it'll have been a 3 month wait for that first one. AMD was seriously behind the eight ball on keeping up with demand for the Ryzen 3900X. I am suspicious of why the 2nd one is arriving the same day since the order for that one was placed a month after the first... confused

This is all great timing since I just received my (daughter's wink ) VSL dongle today also!


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896882 10/03/19 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

This is all great timing since I just received my (daughter's wink ) VSL dongle today also!


Have you downloaded it? you can enjoy them soon laugh
Actually you don't have to wait for the dongle to start downloading the library, player, and instructions.
Next, you need to make it work better on your n1x, with a bit of setup and tweaking.
Sometimes the process is more enjoyable than the result wink


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
robinlb #2896885 10/03/19 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by robinlb
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
This is all great timing since I just received my (daughter's wink ) VSL dongle today also!
Have you downloaded it? you can enjoy them soon laugh
Actually you don't have to wait for the dongle to start downloading the library, player, and instructions.
Next, you need to make it work better on your n1x, with a bit of setup and tweaking.

I could probably download to my current media server and the copy it over when I get my DAW workstation, but I'm thinking it might be better for me just to wait and download and install it directly on the DAW workstation now that it looks like I might have that in the next 2 weeks.

I'm already thinking about what other VSTs I should collect now that I will have a DAW workstation though shocked blush

Originally Posted by robinlb
Sometimes the process is more enjoyable than the result wink

It probably should be, especially given my early career, but actually I would rather have others do it for me. I've parcelled out the computer to have someone build and if I could hire someone set up the entire DAW workstation with the working DAW, VSTs, etc., I probably would! blush


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
Tyrone Slothrop #2896910 10/03/19 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I could probably download to my current media server and the copy it over when I get my DAW workstation, but I'm thinking it might be better for me just to wait and download and install it directly on the DAW workstation now that it looks like I might have that in the next 2 weeks.

I'm already thinking about what other VSTs I should collect now that I will have a DAW workstation though shocked blush

It probably should be, especially given my early career, but actually I would rather have others do it for me. I've parcelled out the computer to have someone build and if I could hire someone set up the entire DAW workstation with the working DAW, VSTs, etc., I probably would! blush


I usually download the library data to a mobile HDD/SSD, then install them to DAW PC.
The process of setting and adjustment I sai,process, is not the hardware, but the preference and effect adjustment of VSL software, which will also be a detailed process that must be done by yourself wink


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Pianoteq7, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
angmyu #2943015 02/05/20 10:47 AM
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Thank you for all informations in this thread, Vsl Steinway D-274 is not perfect, hard work for find "the sound" but at this time is it the best sampled Steinway for me.
For perform Piano / Voice and Variety gig on normal sound system, I use this patch (complete version)
General purpose D-274 v2.zip
Best

Last edited by otocinclus; 02/05/20 10:57 AM.

Yamaha YUS5; Ivory II American Concert D; Fazioli Concert Grand Extreme; Vsl Bosendorfer Impérial; Vsl Concert D-274
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
otocinclus #2944000 02/07/20 04:27 PM
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A little bit better I think =>
General purpose D-274 v3


Yamaha YUS5; Ivory II American Concert D; Fazioli Concert Grand Extreme; Vsl Bosendorfer Impérial; Vsl Concert D-274
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
otocinclus #2944051 02/07/20 06:31 PM
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Can you PM me this (or post) as a file without it being a zip? It does not open for me. I appreciate that you did this!!! Thank you!!!!!


Originally Posted by otocinclus
A little bit better I think =>
General purpose D-274 v3

Re: VSL Steinway D - released
AB99 #2944187 02/08/20 06:51 AM
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Thanks for your interest, sometimes it's the opposite, only zip work on attachment smile
General purpose D-274 v3 no zip


Yamaha YUS5; Ivory II American Concert D; Fazioli Concert Grand Extreme; Vsl Bosendorfer Impérial; Vsl Concert D-274
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
otocinclus #2946392 02/13/20 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by otocinclus
A little bit better I think =>
General purpose D-274 v3

Thank you so much otocinclus - beautiful preset - sounds quite 'real' on my setup (headphones). Very enjoyable to play. thumb


Yamaha C3M - Kawai Novus - VSL CFX & Steinway D - Garritan CFX - Pianoteq Pro - American Concert D - Ravenscroft 275
PC -> Sonarworks Reference 4 -> RME Babyface Pro -> Schiit Yggdrasil + Jotunheim -> Sennheiser HD650 & HD800
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
angmyu #2977455 05/10/20 12:25 PM
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Hi everybody, I'm sort of new to this forum, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the Synchron Concert D-274 now that I bit the bullet and upgraded from Standard to Full. I couldn't stop playing it recently and that was only with the Standard edition, which is how I justified upgrading (that and the sale pricing 'till June 1st helped too). I was addicted to playing it to the point of being unproductive lol.

The tone on this piano, as others have iterated, definitely has that beautiful Hamburg Steinway sound, and the dynamic range is absolutely amazing. The flexibility of finally having all the mic positions is actually a lot more beneficial than I anticipated, but I found the best combination for my setup is not what I expected. The surround, high, and high surround mics give a little bit more of a better picture of how the piano sounds from a distance than the Main microphone alone. The Ribbon and Tube add a different color (especially the Tube) up close but aren't as big of a benefit compared to the Condenser than I thought. For my taste the Condenser is virtually unusable, because even low in a mic mix the percussiveness of the hammers is too much. I'm starting to prefer Mid2 over Mid1 I think because Mid2 has a more focused sound even though it isn't quite as warm.

Overall with Synchron D-274, the piano is designed to be a "very much in the room" piano, which would be ideal for blending and playing along with VSL's other libraries in the Synchron Series. That's sort of where the problems for me begin. The close mics add color and fill out the tone, but it's not something I would rely on as the "main" microphone in a mix. The Mid 2 however gives the right balance between close and far but none of the non-far mics work well by themselves.

I think where I begin to become less convinced of the realism of this piano, is more with the mid-upper range, where playing chords up there just doesn't quite sound realistic. Some of that is due to the lack of high quality sympathetic resonance. And while I understand the idea of using the Robotic Finger to record the piano gives tons of dynamic range and flexibility, playing this sampled Steinway at times sounds like it was recorded by a robotic finger and it's especially apparent with the closer mics.

And then there is the release samples. I'm torn on this, because it doesn't sound bad, but imo it's not quite as convincing as Ravenscroft 275's release samples and sympathetic resonance, or even True Keys American Grand (both made by VI Labs). The American Grand lacks a room microphone, and I've been pushing VI Labs to release an update with a room mic after they admitted via email a couple years ago that they did have an unreleased room mic position. But I digress.

Anyway, the upgrade was worth it for me, and I'd like to share with everybody here my current preset that I am using with Full edition. It's not perfect, but for me personally with my setup, I find it offers a nice balance between close and far. Fair warning though, I have 6 mic positions loaded, so a beefy computer may be required.

EthorMusicD274FullSound.zip


MIDI Controller: Kawai VPC1, Yamaha P200
VSTS: VSL Synchron Concert D-274 Full, Ravenscroft 275, True Keys American Grand, Walker D Lite, Cinepiano, EWQL Pianos Gold, Synthogy Ivory American Concert D
Re: VSL Steinway D - released
ethor #2977525 05/10/20 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ethor
Anyway, the upgrade was worth it for me, and I'd like to share with everybody here my current preset that I am using with Full edition. It's not perfect, but for me personally with my setup, I find it offers a nice balance between close and far. Fair warning though, I have 6 mic positions loaded, so a beefy computer may be required.

EthorMusicD274FullSound.zip

Hi ethor, welcome to the forum. I am completely new to VSL D as well. VSL has so many mics, it is so hard to find the ideal mix. Thanks for sharing your preset, I will give it a try.
One thing I found is that listening through monitors and headphones requires different presets - headphones sound wider and more distant, at least in my setup (Sennheiser HD 800S/650 vs Yamaha HS8).

Last edited by VladK; 05/10/20 02:52 PM.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. (falsely attributed to Plato)
Vlad,
Adult beginner
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Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
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Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
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