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Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
#2940649 01/30/20 12:32 PM
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As background, I picked up a DP a few years ago in hopes that my young daughter would get some regular exposure to piano and see it as a positive activity as she started taking lessons (mission accomplished on that part, I think). As such I mainly play basic Disney movie/cartoon songs that my kids like and I can find sheet music for online. Because my 2-6yo captive audience has the lowest possible bar, I've never really put much effort into practicing correctly, and just kind of brute-force my way through until I memorize a piece and it sounds presentable.

The other day I recorded myself, as I'm thinking it might be nice to have a recording every time I learn a new song, since it's unlikely I'll ever go back to playing many of these (they're kind of one and done as soon as the kids move onto something else). When I finished recording and played it back, I was horrified at how comically bad I played compared to how I thought I played. Also, I was shocked at how fast I was getting through the piece; I was unknowingly rushing through it (guess that's a good argument for using a metronome). So for a piece that is supposed to be 3:30, I was finishing in about 3 minutes flat. I then tried to slow my playing down immensely, until it felt like I was playing half-speed. Playing time for this slower attempt? 2:50?! WTTF. I literally threw my hands in the air. How can something that feels half speed end up being faster (is that at all common)?

This morning I tried again, REALLY trying to slow it down, and no matter how much I put on the brakes, I cannot finish the song in a longer time than 3:10. I have no idea how I can stretch it out another 20 seconds. I think it just got hardwired into my head frown

Anyways, that's my rant. The only part of this that has to do with DPs is that I was playing early in the morning when everyone was asleep, so I'm as-always grateful for being able to use headphones, and I put away the VST and used the NV-10's built in Pianist mode (Classical character, resonance depth set to 8), and I really, really liked the tone. The extra resonance in the SK-EX rendering engine really came out beautifully to my ears, and adds a sweet, bell-like harmonic that I don't hear in the VST.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940652 01/30/20 12:37 PM
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Go back to the start -

Try practicing rythms. How to make sure you do it right? You can use ReadRythm on an iPad and set it up so that you would have no preview of how the rythm sounds and so on.
It will be like real. I set to use microphone input and practicing with a hard book and a pencil to make a tone.

Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940658 01/30/20 12:50 PM
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Are you counting the rests correctly? 😄

Ordinary people often don't when singing without accompaniment.

Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940663 01/30/20 12:57 PM
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Use a metronome, the upbeat tells you the start/end of a new bar. Can't get too long, expect you are in the wrong tempo.

Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
clothearednincompo #2940666 01/30/20 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Go back to the start


I'm REALLY trying to avoid going this route. Mainly because I don't need to (I'm not doing any exams or anything), but also because it's my nature to look for a quick fix wink

Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Use a metronome


Yes, I should have done this from the start. I got lazy because I don't have my DP sound mixed in with my VST, so it's a bit cumbersome to do with headphones.

Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Are you counting the rests correctly? 😄

Ordinary people often don't when singing without accompaniment.


Good point about the rests, I'll scour the sheets again; I'm sure I'm abbreviating both rests and note durations...

Singing would probably help a lot, but it would be a painful price for anyone within earshot.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
nicknameTaken #2940667 01/30/20 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Use a metronome, the upbeat tells you the start/end of a new bar. Can't get too long, expect you are in the wrong tempo.


Has anyone else used a metronome on here, and found it unbelievably distracting?

Gombessa: Have you tried to record a video of your hands? That can give you clues about other things going on (not necessarily tempo).

Ps you don’t have to post it on here! Just for your own perusal.

Last edited by OscarRamsey; 01/30/20 01:20 PM.

Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point. smirk
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940668 01/30/20 01:21 PM
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In my highly limited experience, I would suggest counting if a metronome is too painful.

And if you find you are still going to fast, counting your shortest notes even when you don't need to will help slow you down.

So in 4-4 time, you might count beats in a measure as "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" even though you might only have quarter notes in that measure. Afterwards, you can drop the and's -- except for when you actually need to count an eighth.

Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
OscarRamsey #2940669 01/30/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by OscarRamsey
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Use a metronome, the upbeat tells you the start/end of a new bar. Can't get too long, expect you are in the wrong tempo.


Has anyone else used a metronome on here, and found it unbelievably distracting?


Playing along to a metronome is like having to compose a new song within five minutes, with a firing squad standing by to execute you, if you fail.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28
Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.0 (Blüthner, Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
QuasiUnaFantasia #2940672 01/30/20 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by OscarRamsey
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Use a metronome, the upbeat tells you the start/end of a new bar. Can't get too long, expect you are in the wrong tempo.


Has anyone else used a metronome on here, and found it unbelievably distracting?


Playing along to a metronome is like having to compose a new song within five minutes, with a firing squad standing by to execute you, if you fail.


LOL!!! You couldn’t have put it better! My goodness... the pressure!


Learning to play. Consciously incompetent, which apparently is a good starting point. smirk
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940673 01/30/20 01:31 PM
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I have found that playing to an actual drum beat is much easier than click, click,click! I use this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DR-01S--boss-dr-01s-rhythm-partner instead of a metronome.


A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940677 01/30/20 01:39 PM
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When I was a kid, I used to have a metronome (a wooden box with a big semicircular dial on the face, and a diamond-shaped light on the top. I remember hating it greatly.

It is distracting for me, but I recall it was a lot easier to dial in and adjust the speed by reaching for the dial than trying to tap-tap-tap on the DP control panel.

Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
I have found that playing to an actual drum beat is much easier than click, click,click! I use this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DR-01S--boss-dr-01s-rhythm-partner instead of a metronome.


I never looked for this on the NV-10, but I remember my CP50 used the rhythm section as the metronome, which I agree is less in-your-face than the constant clicking of the clock of life.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940679 01/30/20 01:41 PM
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I will use a metronome to help me get very short passages up to speed, but I absolutely can't use them on longer passages much less whole tunes. I think they're actually bad for me in that context, and encourage me to get away with more errors just to keep tempo.


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Yamaha MX61, PianoTeq Stage 6 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo), Roland KC-80
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940683 01/30/20 01:51 PM
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Once you know the notes and the fingering, then practice the piece with a metronome and practice it with different tempos on the metronome.

Using the metronome, evaluate that you can play all the notes in the correct time, according to the score, at different tempos.

After that then you can evaluate your dynamics, legato, pedalling, etc. But the first priority from your description, will be the metronome practice.

Last edited by 3am_stargazing; 01/30/20 01:52 PM.

M-Audio Keystation 49 | Casio PX-S1000
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
QuasiUnaFantasia #2940684 01/30/20 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by OscarRamsey

Has anyone else used a metronome on here, and found it unbelievably distracting?


Playing along to a metronome is like having to compose a new song within five minutes, with a firing squad standing by to execute you, if you fail.
LOL... When I feel something is very wrong in my rhythm I use the internal metronome of my DP (at its minimum volume) and I imagine I'm playing one of those musical videogames where you have to press the right button at the right time to increase your score... In this way it can even be fun! laugh

Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
magicpiano #2940687 01/30/20 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by OscarRamsey

Has anyone else used a metronome on here, and found it unbelievably distracting?


Playing along to a metronome is like having to compose a new song within five minutes, with a firing squad standing by to execute you, if you fail.
LOL... When I feel something is very wrong in my rhythm I use the internal metronome of my DP (at its minimum volume) and I imagine I'm playing one of those musical videogames where you have to press the right button at the right time to increase your score... In this way it can even be fun! laugh


There are nice sounding metronomes!
https://indiebubbler.github.io/metro/

!!!

Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940692 01/30/20 02:10 PM
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Are there any other tools/techniques you use to gauge your own performance/progress? Finding that just practicing by rote hides so many flaws, I figure there needs to more ways to judge how well you're actually coming along on a piece...


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940696 01/30/20 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Are there any other tools/techniques you use to gauge your own performance/progress? Finding that just practicing by rote hides so many flaws, I figure there needs to more ways to judge how well you're actually coming along on a piece...


I never send you something that lets you only practice by rote. I said set it up so that you don't have this problem for Rythm.
You will each time get random sets of rythms...

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 01/30/20 02:25 PM.
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
TheophilusCarter #2940698 01/30/20 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TheophilusCarter
I will use a metronome to help me get very short passages up to speed, but I absolutely can't use them on longer passages much less whole tunes. I think they're actually bad for me in that context, and encourage me to get away with more errors just to keep tempo.

It depends on your purpose.

If you are trying to memorize/learn the notes, then "getting away with more errors just to keep tempo", would be a bad thing.

But if you are practicing sight reading, or going to be an accompanist, then that's good practice. You can't stop or lose tempo, because you played a wrong note.


M-Audio Keystation 49 | Casio PX-S1000
Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
Gombessa #2940699 01/30/20 02:26 PM
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You should learn to love the metronome. Never practice without...

Re: Recording is @$&#& humbling :(
3am_stargazing #2940700 01/30/20 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 3am_stargazing

It depends on your purpose.

If you are trying to memorize/learn the notes, then "getting away with more errors just to keep tempo", would be a bad thing.

But if you are practicing sight reading, or going to be an accompanist, then that's good practice. You can't stop or lose tempo, because you played a wrong note.


Good point!


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Yamaha MX61, PianoTeq Stage 6 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo), Roland KC-80
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