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Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2719320 03/06/18 09:14 AM
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I can see you're a wee bit out of practice, and fighting the piano should not be what it's all about. Let hope Dave Stahl sorts it all out for you. I don't imagine it will be that quick.

Most people keep their original strings at least until they've got round to contemplating serious other work such as replacing hammers or action, so when you've got your action and hammers all set up nicely, you may come to love the strings you've got. Personally I've always preferred the warmth of the copper wound bass notes.


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2719570 03/07/18 04:58 AM
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Yea I'm definitely fighting the brightness quite a bit with my right hand and it is affecting my playing. I noticed that the recording sounds more balanced that how I hear it from the bench, probably since I have a glass window right behind the bench, I'm probably perceiving more of the high frequency sounds which exacerbates the already bright sound. The ideal setup for this piece is very mellow voicing in the treble with very shallow key dip and light touch. This keyboard is weighted 41-53g, but I think taking another few grams off across the board would feel better for difficult repertoire.

I'm not going to replace strings on this piano. The bass is already so good there would only be maybe a tiny improvement. The copper strings do sound a little more "in tune" which works well when you have big chords, even if it doesn't sound as good when individual notes at the left end of the keyboard are played.

However I am looking into picking up an older piano that could use new strings and that's a perfect opportunity to try some very unconventional bass strings.

Last edited by trigalg693; 03/07/18 04:58 AM.
Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2721046 03/14/18 05:11 AM
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Okay, Dave Stahl tuned my piano, and it's sounding much better now (though still needs voicing and regulation). However I figured I could probably eek out some Chopin op.10 no.1, so here it is (along with the 1st Godowsky transcription). The bass sounds really muddy in the Godowsky's low full chords. However octaves are sounding great. I think stainless steel wound strings would do much better.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...-10-no-1-and-godowsky-transcription.html

Last edited by trigalg693; 03/14/18 05:13 AM.
Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2852388 05/26/19 01:43 PM
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Hi Trigalg,

Every once in a while I Google for Phoenix 212 to see what's new with Richard and HWF. This time my search returned this thread, which is hillarious. Now I can say "So you're the one." like in Top Gun. Richard told me it happened again and that he was done using the shipping company that transported our piano. Same model as you, simpler finish since my wife and daughter wanted all ebony and the plain desk, but ours got dropped by American Airlines and Richard had to get a new one for us too.

Our original piano was dropped in May of 2016. We got the replacement in January or February of 2017. If you want a recommendation on someone to service your Phoenix, Larry Buck is great. He spent 2 full days regulating and voicing ours, well, my daughter's 😉, and it's wonderful now. Hope you enjoy yours as much as she loves hers!


Previously: M&H AA (2006)
Currently: Phoenix C212 (2016)
Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2875824 08/03/19 08:50 PM
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So how is your piano holding up?




Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
Miguel Rey #2886972 09/04/19 04:00 PM
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Hi Miguel,
I'm not sure who that is addressed to, but ours is "holding up" spectacularly. Doesn't get played nearly enough, but despite two North Carolina summers where we often have the doors or windows open a lot, it's still tuned better than our prior piano would have been after 3 months. It did get tuned a couple of times as the strings settled in.

The action is still good per my daughter. Even with a damp chaser, our M&H AA would have required tuning 3 times and some voicing in that time frame. This one just needs a touch up tuning and some minor voicing. Pretty amazing actually, and I love not hearing odd harmonics or longitudinal modes anymore like I did with the AA.

I suspect the tuning stability is due to the sound board and not the stainless strings.I think ours are stainless wound. I honestly haven't looked since it moved in.


Previously: M&H AA (2006)
Currently: Phoenix C212 (2016)
Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
Toddler2 #2889523 09/12/19 02:17 PM
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You are lucky. I had a rebuilt done and major issues with the treble bride caps failing and also hammer strike line is off. They took care of the bridge cap issue by replacing them with carbon fiber but not so much help on the strike line issue. I will be posting full review shortly.




Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2938962 01/26/20 08:10 PM
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Oh totally missed this, yes I heard all about your ordeal from Richard too! The Phoenix gets played every half a year or so since I moved and left it at the parents' house. The replacement really did not have the voicing dialed in well, but after a bunch of fiddling it's almost there. The strings are still stretching so it goes a bit flat every time. Action regulation seems to be going strong 2 years later, though of course it has only been played maybe 70 hours.

Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2984343 05/26/20 08:51 PM
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Today I got a strip of felt in the mail and made a proper bass backscale mute. I found a picture of a Steingraeber with no felt either, so maybe it wasn't a fluke, but after someone pointed out the "howling" noise I couldn't stand it anymore and put a towel over it. I'm not sure if there's any way you're supposed to do this, I just weaved it through the strings and swallowtailed the ends.

[Linked Image]

My tuning lever disappeared but I bought (a better) one and will hopefully record some stuff in a few weeks. The piano sounds amazing, though after playing digital pianos for a while the bass doesn't have the punch I'm used to.

Last edited by trigalg693; 05/26/20 08:54 PM.
Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2984351 05/26/20 09:26 PM
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I thought the whole point of Carbon fiber, and WNG parts was so humidity would no longer be an issue.

I've played on a few carbon fiber pianos and after realized it was not a timbre that grew on me. I went to a store that had two identical pianos side by side a few years back, so the comparison of the carbon fiber with the phoenix agraffe bridges next to its traditional copy was interesting. To hear the changes in tone, richness, and depth the change of materials made was educational.

-chris


Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
Lenoir City, Tennessee U.S.A
www.chernobieffpiano.com
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Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
Chernobieff Piano #2984365 05/26/20 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chernobieff Piano
I thought the whole point of Carbon fiber, and WNG parts was so humidity would no longer be an issue.

Well yea, that and carbon fiber is theoretically more durable than wood, so hopefully it'll still sound great in 50 years while wooden boards lose strength and crown. Since the frame is wood, I'm sure it is affected by humidity, but Larry Buck's regulation has held through 2 years temperature and humidity swings, and its 4th tuning has held reasonably well (only down a few cents over half a year).

I think my favorite thing about this piano is the boomy bass, which I'm told is possible due to the thin carbon soundboard. Wooden boards are much thicker and damp the bass. The timbre is so-so; I think I might prefer the top half of a Bosendorfer. The ability to produce a wonderful mellow ppp and a bright and powerful fff, combined with exceptional sustain make me very very happy. I realize a lot of that is in the hammers, but the sheer power is hard to find in other instruments.

The Phoenix D3D action has magnet assisted jack reset and stronger hammer flanges which I'm sure make it even better, but I have no complaints about the WNG's performance. Difficult etudes are effortless to execute at high speed, and controlling the sound and tone is easy.

Last edited by trigalg693; 05/26/20 10:14 PM.
Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2984840 Yesterday at 01:38 AM
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So what is the connection between Steingraeber and Phoenix pianos ? I know Steingraeber use carbon fiber sound boards and have some connection to Hurstwood farm but that is about all.

Re: Phoenix C212, after a long wait
trigalg693 #2985064 Yesterday at 03:14 PM
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The Phoenix pianos have gone through a lot of iterations but they all use Steingraeber frame/rim/plate/lid. Steingraeber on the other hand has used soundboards, CF honeycomb lid, and bridge agraffes from Phoenix, where the piano gets "Steingraeber-Phoenix" on the fallboard. Everything else is done by Phoenix I think in Poland and some finishing touches in England.

Current Phoenix pianos have a carbon fiber bridge cap in the trebel which I don't think Steingraeber uses. I think they used to have Steingraeber install the soundboard and the bridge since the trebel bridge looks identical to Steingraeber.

You can get a Phoenix soundboard/bridge retrofit on many other pianos though, and they sometimes put Phoenix branding on it (such as the Bluthner they called "Phoenix Opus").

Hurstwood Farm is the name of Richard's farm and is a dealer carrying his own Phoenix pianos, as well as a lot of Steingraebers, and some other pianos.

Last edited by trigalg693; Yesterday at 03:15 PM.
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