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Thanks, Simon and Dave!

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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by PlayitSam
Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by PlayitSam
I’ve learned that many jazz chord voicings are not at all intuitive; It’s great to be shown what works by a real pro.
I don’t know if the term “intuitively” is suitable here. More precisely, it will be: those found by ear by trial and error, which includes borrowing from classical harmony.


I’m not the least bit interested in your silly opinion of whether my descriptive word is suitable or not. Mainly, I was taking the time to welcome a fellow player to the course, and mention what I was getting out of it. Strange, that you think it is your place to criticize MY personal experience? You said that you, “Don’t know if my term ‘intuitive’ is suitable??” So, in your academic mind, we shouldn’t learn correct, complex voicings from a seasoned professional player?? We should all just “go it alone” (and use our ear, as you put it) without the benefit of experienced players helping us learn tried and true, World-class voicings??

After reading your comment to the end, you sound like an “academic wanna-be” (aka a snob) rather than being a “real player.” Maybe you should consider landing your ego and quit trying to sound like such a critical know-it-all.
Dear young "advanced beginner"! I have a feeling that you are not only a beginner improviser and a new forum member, but also a beginner in relations with other forum users. Let me teach you give you a lesson , and completely for free: before attacking someone here, it’s customary to collect preliminary information about him; for example, in the posts of this person or on his website, or in the vastness of the Internet in general, including YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9zLmwikefw

In addition, I recommend reading literature on the history of jazz, in this case the very solid " Das Grosse Jazz Buch" by Joachim Berendt, where he considers the process of the emergence of jazz harmony - maybe this will enrich you in something.

Good luck in your education!




My description as “advanced beginner” was meant to be tongue in cheek. I do have a fair amount of experience; with a master’s degree in music and playing professionally for 40 years in many venues. (not piano)

I am happy to hear differing opinions to mine on this forum (that’s why I joined) but your curt and critical (and frankly wrong) response to my message came off to me as silly and snooty.

I was commenting on an instructor who taught me some great voicings (and relating that experience to Tom and others on the forum who might benefit) And all you saw fit to do was to JUMP on my post and start criticizing, “I don't know if your word is suitable! I must use my ear…… USE CLASSICAL HARMONY!” Really?? Rather than learn directly from a seasoned pro??

If you have something helpful to offer people who want to learn, I would suggest you have a dialog rather than shortly, LECTURING people from your “vast musical knowledge.” You might even learn something yourself.

And, I stand by my original opinion that playing altered jazz chord voicings are not always intuitive.

Last edited by PlayitSam; 01/26/20 05:19 PM.

Sam


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Originally Posted by Simon_b
Hi PlayItSam

I think sometimes Nahum says things that maybe could be worded better, as I've been drawn into arguing with him in the past.
However I've contacted him via private message to ask about some music that he gave some samples of (The Kid from Red Bank - Count Basie) and found him to be very friendly and helpful.

I'm not getting into the rights and wrongs of who said what, or taking sides, but I thought you should know that he is (or was) a professional Jazz player who has played at a very high level.

Cheers


That’s cool Simon,

I respect your kindness to support a fellow player and try to “smooth things over.”

It seemed so odd to me, that such a benign personal opinion that, “I find [for me] closed altered chord voicings are not always intuitive” (in their stacking) so, it’s great to be shown by a pro”……… would be a statement that anyone, let alone a professional jazz player would want to criticize. Does that make sense? His strange choice of words struck me as a comment that would come from a pseudo piano intellectual rather than a real “player.”

An oversimplified example of my point would be the way Bill Evans would play….. let’s say a G7 chord. Well, any beginner in jazz piano would immediately think, “Okay, that would be G,B,D,F. But, of course, that isn’t even close to the way Bill Evans would play G7, right? He would (could) likely voice it as F,B,E. (adding a 13) And, we’re not even talking about altered “closed chords” yet. The point is, that jazz chords are NOT intuitive in their voicing. This is the statement that Nahum decided he needed to go to battle with me over?? Why? I can only speculate.


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No worries and welcome Sam.

Nahum is a very helpful member. There is an international crowd here so language and culture difference sometimes cause a bit of misinterpretation by all of us.

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Originally Posted by PlayitSam
[
I am happy to hear differing opinions to mine on this forum (that’s why I joined) but your curt and critical (and frankly wrong) response to my message came off to me as silly and snooty.



I
don’t
know
if
the
term
“intuitively”
is
suitable
here.
More
precisely,
it
will
be:
those
found
by
ear
by
trial
and
error
, which
includes
borrowing
from
classical
harmony ?

PS
What happened to you after our normal dialogue at 24/10 ???
.


Last edited by Nahum; 01/27/20 03:35 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by PlayitSam
[
I am happy to hear differing opinions to mine on this forum (that’s why I joined) but your curt and critical (and frankly wrong) response to my message came off to me as silly and snooty.



I
don’t
know
if
the
term
“intuitively”
is
suitable
here.
More
precisely,
it
will
be:
those
found
by
ear
by
trial
and
error
, which
includes
borrowing
from
classical
harmony ?

PS
What happened to you after our normal dialogue at 24/10 ???
.


Well, again, a strange message. Don’t quite know what your motivation is?

Time to move on.


Sam


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Nahum, I want to start my day today by apologizing to you for my angry reaction to your comment to me the other day. My interpretation of your message did not warrant my angry response. I over reacted and I’m sorry. In the future, I will try to do a better job of trying to understand other’s point of view. Please know that I’m profoundly sorry and as a fellow musician, wish you well in music and life.

Sam


Sam


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PlayitSam] , Its OK! I hope my honest intentions come through my bad English.

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Originally Posted by Nahum
PlayitSam] , Its OK! I hope my honest intentions come through my bad English.

I'm sure they will.

Lucky for you, I don't try to write in Hebrew! :-)


Sam


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Originally Posted by PlayitSam
Originally Posted by Nahum
PlayitSam] , Its OK! I hope my honest intentions come through my bad English.



Lucky for you, I don't try to write in Hebrew! :-)

It's like in England, you suddenly have to drive on the same side of the street in the opposite direction; however not by car, but by camel))))

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I can speak very highly of Jazz Piano School. Brenden Lowe has a complete jazz piano course that is applicable whether one is a beginner, intermediate, or advanced player. He just redid the whole course to make it even better! 1000's of video lessons, PDF's, and what he offers is a structured, step-by-step course that covers just about everything in a structured model, with attention paid to filling in holes in one's playing and becoming a player who, can just sit down and play just about anything well and understand all the theory behind it.

He is a passionate guy who built this wonderful course out of his frustration with the hit and miss teaching he received in music school and studying with teachers with systems that just did not work for him. In addition, as a member there is a private Facebook group where one can upload a video for feedback and Brenden and his staff are available to answer questions, periodic live Q & A sessions, tune analysis, a number of specialty courses on such topics as Bill Evans voicing system, solo piano, and accompanying singers, flashcards for drilling technique, and much more. it is almost endless. I never have to search all over for anything anymore. It is all in the course. He also puts out free weekly podcasts on youtube and apple that you can access to give you a taste of what he offers. .

I am a lifetime member, and took advantage of a Black Friday offer, but there are monthly plans, with periodic specials.

jazzpianoschool.com

Last edited by gracegren; 02/10/20 01:48 PM.

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I would like to thank you guys for mentioning PianoGroove. I tried Piano with Jonny for a few weeks, but tired of it quickly. But it is a very good program with a really active FB community. I had never heard of PianoGroove. As Sam said, Hayden focuses on playing jazz standards from a lead sheet. And you jump right in. I joined last week and the attention from Hayden and the staff is outstanding. He responds to questions the next day. He is in London and I'm in California. Otherwise I think it would be the same day. I am a little overwhelmed right now. He suggest you learn three songs from a lead sheet while also working on fundamentals. So I am setting Willy's Cocktail Piano course and Artist Works aside as least for the time being until I see how well I can progress on the first three standards. 🎹🎹🎹



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TomLC, does PianoGroove provide downloadable lead sheets or music for the piano standards course?


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Yes. Lead sheets, arrangements, exercises. A very active private forum. You can sign up for a month and quit if it's not what you are looking for. He also recommends iReal app and Real books. They offer 5 free lessons also.



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I have gone full circle back to PianoWithWillie. (JazzEdge). The others we have discussed are all good. But I guess I am just so familiar with Willie after five years. His new website with everything combined is an improvement as is the lower price. I paid $79 a month for a Premium membership in the past. Now for $49 you can get essentially the same access. Plus he has been doing some group training.



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Now that Julian Bradley has his website ...

https://jazztutorial.com/courses

... up and running .... I have to give it a nod over all the others I have been a member of.

I won't name them but, trust me, I have been a member of most jazz education sites at one time or another.

Jazztutorial.com has been built with a plan and is highly organized and structured.

The content is all presented by Julian Bradley and he has taken pride in his lessons.

They are well done and highly informational.

You might need to be a late beginner or early intermediate player in order to benefit most from his lessons.

I would encourage others to give it a look.


Don

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Just a quick plug for my school:

www.jazzpianoonline.com

I've been in business since 2007- I think I may be the first and have been teaching jazz online certainly the longest of anyone.


I have four completely free courses:

Five Essential Seventh Chords
https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/courses/five-essential-7th-chords

Five Essential Seventh Chords - Tunes (A new series showing you how to play seventh chords over standard tunes- a new lesson each week)
https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/pages/five-essential-seventh-chords-tunes

Improv- The Concept
https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/courses/improv-the-concept

Major ii-V-I Progression
https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/courses/major-ii-V-I-progression

Lydian Ending
https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/courses/lydian-ending


And more FREE content:

Mini Jazz Lessons - Mini Lessons are concise tutorials on a narrow topic related to various lessons on the site.
https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/pages/mini-lessons

Jazz Licks - These licks are taken from various lessons on the site. Add them to your solos!
https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/pages/jazz-licks

Overwhelmed at the possibilities? Consult the Roadmap (https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/pages/roadmap) to chart a course for your lessons.

Personal attention is a click away. One-on-one webcam lessons are available here: https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/collections/one-on-one-video-chat-lessons

Read the latest newsletter for more: https://mailchi.mp/a5da9100453b/y27tmo5uqk

Post about JazzPianoOnline.com on social media and be entered into a chance to win an annual subscription every month.
@JazzPianoOnline

Ready to subscribe? Sign Up here: https://www.jazzpianoonline.com/collections/subscriptions?q=



And let me give a shout out to Brenden Lowe at jazzpianoschool.com. Great site. He was my student. I taught him in when he was in high school. He was very sharp and a great player even then.


Bill
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Another vote for Jazzpianoschool.com by Brenden Lowe. I am sure there are a lot of good courses out there, but what I like so much about this is the amazing structured approach. The whole course is laid out in small step by step classes. Absolutely no time wasted to look around for the next video or the next thing to learn. You just go on to the next step in the course. It will take you from beginner to quite advanced and there is so much material it will take you years to complete the course.

I am in no way affilliated with JPS. I am just a happy studen who has taken my playing to a new level by following his course and putting in hours and hours with practice.


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Hi Sam-

I was wondering if you are stilll with pianowithjonny.com? I've been looking around at some of the sites, but haven't really seem what I'm looking for (and perhaps it's mostly an unlearnable "ear" skill) which is reharmonizing. I wouldn't say I'm particularly interested in playing a particular style of jazz, I'm more drawn to laid back, reharmonized standards more along the lines of say Fred Hersch (and I'm acutely aware that I''ll never be close to these guys!) and for my personal enjoyment.
I can sight read well enough jazz transcriptions and can play from a lead sheet with practice and not planning on gigging at the Village Vanguard anytime soon!

Thanks!

Cheers-
Dave

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