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What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? #2938117 01/24/20 04:02 PM
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So far, I've learnt the following pieces in full length (although I'll admit I need to polish most of these up again):

- Prokofiev, Waltz, Op. 65, No. 6
- Liszt, Consolation No. 1 in E, S. 172, No. 1
- Beethoven, Bagatelle in A, Op. 33, No. 4
- MacDowell, To a Wild Rose, Op. 51, No. 1
- MacDowell, To a Water Lily, Op. 51, No. 6
- Schubert, Moment Musicaux No. 3, D. 780, No. 3
- MacDowell, Träumerei, Op. 46, No. 9
- Beethoven, Sonata in G, Op. 49, No. 2, 2nd movement

(I actually posted a video of me playing MacDowell's Träumerei on YouTube.)

Pieces I've started learning since:

- MacDowell, Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor, Op. 23
- MacDowell, Hungarian, Op. 39, No. 12
- Beethoven, Sonata in G, Op. 49, No. 2, 1st movement
- Grieg, Ballade in G minor, Op. 24

The Grieg I've not finished, I only know the Theme and Variation I; as for the MacDowell Concerto, I know slightly more than half of the first movement at tempo, and can play that (almost as competently as Van Cliburn), and have sight-read the rest of the first movement (but with some flaws that need to be polished).

MacDowell's Hungarian and the Beethoven Sonata in G first movement are for a small competition in 2 months.

Based on what I've listed, what else do you think I should learn? I'd appreciate some feedback. Thanks!

Last edited by iaintagreatpianist; 01/24/20 04:03 PM.

Pianist-in-training. Also an 18 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Some of my favorite composers: Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Edvard Grieg, Edward MacDowell.
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Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938134 01/24/20 04:35 PM
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Wot?? No Baroque, no Chopin, no Brahms, no Rachmaninov? wink

Bach: Partita BWV 825
Scarlatti: Kk 380, Kk 141 (listen to Argerich)
Chopin: anything
Brahms: start with Op.118
Rachmaninov: Preludes Op.3/2 (yes, that one), Op.23/4 & 5, Op.32/5, 10 & 12


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: bennevis] #2938149 01/24/20 05:05 PM
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They are excellent recommenations.

Originally Posted by bennevis
Rachmaninov: Preludes Op.3/2 (yes, that one)


But that one, and the Brahms 118 no 2, are so overplayed. They should have been banned from the recommendations.

Brahms 118 no 6 is excellent. Have a look at that one. Rachmaninov opus 3. I think Rach G minor prelude is really very difficult.

Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938158 01/24/20 05:45 PM
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Thanks for the advice! I think I'll try either Brahms Op. 118 or Chopin sometime soon.

I'm still young, about 18 years old, and I don't work any jobs, so I still have to earn some chore money to get books with good fingering.
Though I think finding good fingering for Brahms or Chopin aren't as big of a problem as some of the challenges I'd face.

As for Rachmaninoff, what kind of handspan would I need for the preludes? I can reach a 10th comfortably on both hands if need be, and despite being right-handed, I have reached minor 11ths on the left hand. But Rachmaninoff could reach a 13th right? I hope I don't need that big of a hand to play the Preludes!


Pianist-in-training. Also an 18 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Some of my favorite composers: Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Edvard Grieg, Edward MacDowell.
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938163 01/24/20 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
Thanks for the advice! I think I'll try either Brahms Op. 118 or Chopin sometime soon.

I'm still young, about 18 years old, and I don't work any jobs, so I still have to earn some chore money to get books with good fingering.
Though I think finding good fingering for Brahms or Chopin aren't as big of a problem as some of the challenges I'd face.

You would be better off finding out what fingering suits you. Any edition - or IMSLP (i.e. free) - will have the composer's own fingering in it, if they wrote any.

Quote
As for Rachmaninoff, what kind of handspan would I need for the preludes? I can reach a 10th comfortably on both hands if need be, and despite being right-handed, I have reached minor 11ths on the left hand. But Rachmaninoff could reach a 13th right? I hope I don't need that big of a hand to play the Preludes!

I have much smaller hands than you - I can't reach 10ths in my RH, for example (because I lost the tip of my pinky due to frostbite) and only just about reach 10ths in LH with preparation - yet I play all those Preludes I listed with no trouble. Arpeggiate the bigger chords - the composer himself did so, even if he could play them whole (listen to him playing the opening of Rach 2).


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938210 01/24/20 08:35 PM
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Your listed repertoire doesn't make much sense to me. The Grieg Ballade and Macdowell Concerto are the type of pieces played by conservartory students and rarely possible for amateurs. But the most of your other pieces with a few exceptions are what I'd call intermediate pieces typically played by those with around 2-4 years of lessons. I don't see how anyone can judge your skill level based on the pieces you listed.

One suggestion I would make is to not do any Macdowell for a while. There are so many pieces by very great composers so why play so much from a composer few would rate in the top 25?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 01/24/20 08:40 PM.
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: pianoloverus] #2938220 01/24/20 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Your listed repertoire doesn't make much sense to me. The Grieg Ballade and Macdowell Concerto are the type of pieces played by conservartory students and rarely possible for amateurs. But the most of your other pieces with a few exceptions are what I'd call intermediate pieces typically played by those with around 2-4 years of lessons. I don't see how anyone can judge your skill level based on the pieces you listed.

One suggestion I would make is to not do any Macdowell for a while. There are so many pieces by very great composers so why play so much from a composer few would rate in the top 25?


I agree w/ this and I went to the YT site listed in your signature and watched 1 video of Traumerei being played and honestly, it really sounds very unpolished and awkward. Not sure if that was you (the OP) playing it or someone else, but I would be hesitant to accept advice from anyone here about what your abilities are to learn the much the ridiculously advanced level pieces suggested by Bennevis (who I have yet to see or hear any video/sound recordings of his recital performances so always wonder how reliable his self-judgments really are) like Rachmaninov or a Bach Partita (which is prob not too wise as most students learn a 2 or 3 part Invention prior to working on Partitas). I think the Chopin Preludes & Waltzes (the easier ones) would be a great start along w/ Bach and Scarlatti. But like everything else on this board, this is just my (layman's) opinion, and you can take it w/ a grain of salt.

Last edited by AssociateX; 01/24/20 09:35 PM.

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Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938225 01/24/20 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
[...]
(I actually posted a video of me playing MacDowell's Träumerei on YouTube.)

Pieces I've started learning since:

- MacDowell, Piano Concerto No. 2 in D minor, Op. 23
- MacDowell, Hungarian, Op. 39, No. 12
- Beethoven, Sonata in G, Op. 49, No. 2, 1st movement
- Grieg, Ballade in G minor, Op. 24

The Grieg I've not finished, I only know the Theme and Variation I; as for the MacDowell Concerto, I know slightly more than half of the first movement at tempo, and can play that (almost as competently as Van Cliburn), and have sight-read the rest of the first movement (but with some flaws that need to be polished).

MacDowell's Hungarian and the Beethoven Sonata in G first movement are for a small competition in 2 months.

Based on what I've listed, what else do you think I should learn? I'd appreciate some feedback. Thanks!


This may not be the feedback your are hoping for.

Having listened to your hesitant approach to the MacDowell Träumerei,



a modest work, (very poor quality recording, sound-wise which makes it hard to judge your interpretation of the work), I am hard pressed to understand why you are working on such very advanced works as the MacDowell Piano Concerto and the Grieg Ballade. Even the Op. 39, No. 12 has demands that I wonder whether you can meet.

First, at your current level and without much chance of ever performing a concerto movement unless with someone performing the orchestra part on a second piano, what is your rationale for working on this concerto? The Grieg Ballade has conservatory level demands, demands which, based on your recording, you are not ready for. Yes, one may profit from extending one's reach a little beyond current ability in order to advance one's technique, but this would be such a stretch that it would seem counter-productive to me, even more so without the aid of a teacher.

I suggest that you post a recording - one with better sound quality than the MacDowell Träumerei - to give us a better idea of your proficiency and artistry with some of the works - or at least one work - that you think you play well. Then, those of us hoping to give you some guidance may have a better base on which to voice opinions and suggestions.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: BruceD] #2938246 01/24/20 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Your listed repertoire doesn't make much sense to me. The Grieg Ballade and Macdowell Concerto are the type of pieces played by conservartory students and rarely possible for amateurs. But the most of your other pieces with a few exceptions are what I'd call intermediate pieces typically played by those with around 2-4 years of lessons. I don't see how anyone can judge your skill level based on the pieces you listed.

One suggestion I would make is to not do any Macdowell for a while. There are so many pieces by very great composers so why play so much from a composer few would rate in the top 25?

I personally love MacDowell, he speaks to my soul the way Chopin spoke to [Arthur] Rubinstein's soul, but I do agree that I do need to learn a good amount of pieces that aren't by MacDowell as well. I might take a step back from him for a bit.

Originally Posted by AssociateX

I agree w/ this and I went to the YT site listed in your signature and watched 1 video of Traumerei being played and honestly, it really sounds very unpolished and awkward. Not sure if that was you (the OP) playing it or someone else, but I would be hesitant to accept advice from anyone here about what your abilities are to learn the much the ridiculously advanced level pieces suggested by Bennevis (who I have yet to see or hear any video/sound recordings of his recital performances so always wonder how reliable his self-judgments really are) like Rachmaninov or a Bach Partita (which is prob not too wise as most students learn a 2 or 3 part Invention prior to working on Partitas). I think the Chopin Preludes & Waltzes (the easier ones) would be a great start along w/ Bach and Scarlatti. But like everything else on this board, this is just my (layman's) opinion, and you can take it w/ a grain of salt.

Chopin Preludes might actually be within my reach actually. And yes, that was most likely me playing Traumerei.

Originally Posted by BruceD


This may not be the feedback your are hoping for.

Having listened to your hesitant approach to the MacDowell Träumerei,



a modest work, (very poor quality recording, sound-wise which makes it hard to judge your interpretation of the work), I am hard pressed to understand why you are working on such very advanced works as the MacDowell Piano Concerto and the Grieg Ballade. Even the Op. 39, No. 12 has demands that I wonder whether you can meet.


I agree, and I'm quite honestly terrified to perform the Op. 39, No. 12, at a competition. (Assuming I get past the first round, which is the Beethoven G major sonata. I don't even know if I'll get past the Beethoven G major though...a lot harder than it sounds)

And while I need to polish a lot of the MacDowell concerto, and I mean, a lot - I have gotten a good amount done with it so far and my piano teacher, who was once a conductor, is satisfied with my progress... so I guess I can be happy about that!

Most of the intermediate pieces I played to start off lessons (Prokofiev Waltz, Beethoven Bagatelle in A, etc etc) was to get me comfortable on the piano. Because I started piano at a rather late age - 15 years old - I don't count my lessons from any age younger because I don't remember them very well - I'm basically playing catch up by learning all these advanced pieces like the MacDowell concerto, Grieg Ballade, etc etc because I started late on the piano. I won't get anywhere if I go slow.

Last edited by iaintagreatpianist; 01/24/20 11:17 PM. Reason: Explainations

Pianist-in-training. Also an 18 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Some of my favorite composers: Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Edvard Grieg, Edward MacDowell.
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938248 01/24/20 11:30 PM
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I ain’t
Since you have a piano teacher, shouldn’t that be your resource for evaluation and musical suggestions?


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938252 01/25/20 12:03 AM
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Your piano needs servicing. It is bad enough that it inhibits your playing.


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Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: dogperson] #2938422 01/25/20 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Since you have a piano teacher, shouldn’t that be your resource for evaluation and musical suggestions?

He is my main resource. The main purpose of this thread was to get some second opinions, because I'm less shy online than I am with my teacher.


Pianist-in-training. Also an 18 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Some of my favorite composers: Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Edvard Grieg, Edward MacDowell.
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: AssociateX] #2938487 01/25/20 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by AssociateX
Not sure if that was you (the OP) playing it or someone else, but I would be hesitant to accept advice from anyone here about what your abilities are to learn the much the ridiculously advanced level pieces suggested by Bennevis (who I have yet to see or hear any video/sound recordings of his recital performances so always wonder how reliable his self-judgments really are) like Rachmaninov or a Bach Partita (which is prob not too wise as most students learn a 2 or 3 part Invention prior to working on Partitas). .

FYI - before you start knocking people like me again based on no knowledge of their abilities or acumen (though I'd have thought that my posts - if you've ever read them properly - would have told you enough about my knowledge) - I give my suggestions to posters based on what they say, and I never listen to anyone's YT posted here.

If someone says they can play the MacDowell concerto as the OP described (comparing himself to Cliburn), I take it at face value:

Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
The Grieg I've not finished, I only know the Theme and Variation I; as for the MacDowell Concerto, I know slightly more than half of the first movement at tempo, and can play that (almost as competently as Van Cliburn), and have sight-read the rest of the first movement (but with some flaws that need to be polished).


Incidentally, I never give opinions on people's playing abilities unless they ask me specifically, but you deign to make a denigrating remark on mine, when you've never even heard me play??




"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938506 01/25/20 04:29 PM
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Yes that was rude associate x !

If the suggestions are too difficult then we can make other suggestions.

For Grieg I would recommend looking at his llyrical pieces. The is a huge range. From calm and dreamy to fast and elven. Dances. Lots of standards. An excellent book.




I would also recommend Mendelssohn Songs without Words. But I am very biased !

We also have about 5 pages of baroque recommendations if you want to look at from yesterday on the other thread.

Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2938943 01/26/20 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
I won't get anywhere if I go slow.


Where exactly are you planning on going with piano? Because going forward like this is not the way to do it. Rushing through it will only continue to give you the results shown in your videos.


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Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2939171 01/27/20 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
I don't count my lessons from any age younger because I don't remember them very well - I'm basically playing catch up by learning all these advanced pieces like the MacDowell concerto, Grieg Ballade, etc etc because I started late on the piano. I won't get anywhere if I go slow.


Going fast has its place as does pushing yourself, but always be sure to work on and build a solid foundation too. Pick a piece that speaks to you and is a challenge if that motivates you, but don't overlook easier pieces and what you can learn from them.

Going right back perhaps all the way to Grade 1 pieces where learning to "play the notes" is simple, will allow you to spend time/energy on other areas like phrasing/dynamics/technique.

Keep in mind, there are people who start the piano FAR later in life than you are and within 5-10 years are playing pieces to quite a high standard. It's imho worth taking the time to build a solid base even if it's a year or two working on "easy" pieces. Sometimes the fastest progress can be made through taking things slow. Give you brain/body time to fully absorb what you are learning.

Last edited by Gary001; 01/27/20 08:13 AM.

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Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: Gary001] #2939281 01/27/20 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary001
Originally Posted by iaintagreatpianist
I don't count my lessons from any age younger because I don't remember them very well - I'm basically playing catch up by learning all these advanced pieces like the MacDowell concerto, Grieg Ballade, etc etc because I started late on the piano. I won't get anywhere if I go slow.


Going fast has its place as does pushing yourself, but always be sure to work on and build a solid foundation too. Pick a piece that speaks to you and is a challenge if that motivates you, but don't overlook easier pieces and what you can learn from them.

Going right back perhaps all the way to Grade 1 pieces where learning to "play the notes" is simple, will allow you to spend time/energy on other areas like phrasing/dynamics/technique.

Keep in mind, there are people who start the piano FAR later in life than you are and within 5-10 years are playing pieces to quite a high standard. It's imho worth taking the time to build a solid base even if it's a year or two working on "easy" pieces. Sometimes the fastest progress can be made through taking things slow. Give you brain/body time to fully absorb what you are learning.


+1


Lisa

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Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: BruceD] #2939422 01/27/20 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary001


Going fast has its place as does pushing yourself, but always be sure to work on and build a solid foundation too. Pick a piece that speaks to you and is a challenge if that motivates you, but don't overlook easier pieces and what you can learn from them.

Going right back perhaps all the way to Grade 1 pieces where learning to "play the notes" is simple, will allow you to spend time/energy on other areas like phrasing/dynamics/technique.

Keep in mind, there are people who start the piano FAR later in life than you are and within 5-10 years are playing pieces to quite a high standard. It's imho worth taking the time to build a solid base even if it's a year or two working on "easy" pieces. Sometimes the fastest progress can be made through taking things slow. Give you brain/body time to fully absorb what you are learning.

True, I'll keep that in mind. I may actually do some easier pieces now that you mention that.

Originally Posted by BruceD


Having listened to your hesitant approach to the MacDowell Träumerei, a modest work, (very poor quality recording, sound-wise which makes it hard to judge your interpretation of the work), I am hard pressed to understand why you are working on such very advanced works as the MacDowell Piano Concerto and the Grieg Ballade.

...


I suggest that you post a recording - one with better sound quality than the MacDowell Träumerei - to give us a better idea of your proficiency and artistry with some of the works - or at least one work - that you think you play well. Then, those of us hoping to give you some guidance may have a better base on which to voice opinions and suggestions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQrZXH9fsTI

Just uploaded this, it's me playing the first cadenza and measures 49-75 of the first movement of MacDowell's Second Concerto. Hopefully this will help people with giving suggestions.


Pianist-in-training. Also an 18 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Some of my favorite composers: Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Edvard Grieg, Edward MacDowell.
Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2939428 01/27/20 07:15 PM
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After listening, I suggest you review this video with your teacher for comments and use your teacher for a resource in choosing repertoire.

Re: What pieces do you think I have the abilities for? [Re: iaintagreatpianist] #2939433 01/27/20 07:29 PM
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the piece appears too hard for you so i do not think it fair really to critique it. i have given to easier suggestions. my concern is genuine as you have a problem with collapsing DIP joint. this may cause significant injury. this needs a teacher to help with this. i to had this problem when i returned to lesson and worked on scales and arpeggios when i returned to lessons whiched help prevent these problems. i have been given technical exercises by my teacher to help with hand position and technique work again after a long break. this will give you some insight into some of these errors as online world is not great at advising - particularly as there appears to be disagreement amongst piano players even though there are probably common ground which everyone would agree on. one of which would be that collapisng joints are not good. HTH

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PCI Express card for VST playback
by Osho - 02/23/20 12:18 AM
Has anyone heard these tunes
by Jonky Ponky - 02/22/20 11:08 PM
Alternative Scale Fingering
by HC110 - 02/22/20 10:16 PM
Grand piano touch too light
by Coda9 - 02/22/20 09:35 PM
Are the hens finally coming home to roost?
by Norbert - 02/22/20 08:15 PM
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