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Digital piano and professional pianists #2937653 01/23/20 03:30 PM
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lopmax Offline OP
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Which digital piano would Valentina Lisitsa, Murray Perahia or other great pianists choose? Would they choose between Novus 10 and N3x? What would you guess which piano most classical pianists choose, if they are not allowed to play on their grand piano?


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Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937658 01/23/20 03:34 PM
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rintincop Offline
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Whichever has the most realistic action. Sound quality is secondary when it comes to arificial (digital) pianos.
So, which brand has the more realistic, more playable action?
The NV10 has longer key pivot lengths and also has real dampers which you lift with the keys, as well as with the damper pedal, right? BUT, which action is lighter? Pros don't like heavy or stiff actions. They need fast actions; they train for hours and don't like any excess physical resistance.


Professional | 1966 Mason & Hamlin | Kawai ES110 | Mojo 61 |
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937674 01/23/20 04:01 PM
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djvu10 Online Content
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I had played the NV10 and the N3X a few times before but not one after another and have always thought I'd prefer the N3X over the NV10 if money was no object and because I prefer the grand piano body. Last week, after playing the NV10, I walked over and played the NX3 and to my surprise, its action didn't feel nearly as good to me. The 2 acoustic piano actions I'm most familiar with are on my friends' 7' and 9' Steinways. I made mistakes on the N3X that I had never made on the grand pianos or the NV10. This is, of course, only my opinion.

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: djvu10] #2937725 01/23/20 05:33 PM
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Well, I'm not agree that sound is not so important. No less than the action. I do not want a piano with great action but poor sound, on which I'm not able to make good performances for other listeners (and for myself). As I know, in last Chopin Piano Competition in Warsaw (2015), each pianist had one Yamaha digital piano in his/her hotel bedroom. And they was all professional pianists. I do not know the model. We will see during next edition in this 2020.

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937727 01/23/20 05:40 PM
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Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895.
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937730 01/23/20 05:57 PM
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CyberGene Offline
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Evgeni Bozhanov owns a Clavinova. Arthur Pizzaro has praised the Yamaha N1. I think it’s very likely that most professional classical pianists will chose a hybrid digital piano if they ever need a digital.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937731 01/23/20 06:02 PM
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Josh Wright likes his Clavinova and his Nord.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ObcoQgaOs


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Future: Kawai CA79?
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Roland KC-80, PianoTeq (Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo)
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937743 01/23/20 06:53 PM
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Vladimir Horowitz's Steinway D had characteristics of 44-45g downweight, 30-32g upweight.

Here's an interesting story:

"In 1891, the House of Steinway brought the the famous Polish pianist Paderewski to America to show off his playing (and their pianos). In Paderewski's memoirs, he mentions having problems with the Steinway piano because he was accustomed to playing European pianos, which had fairly light actions. Compared to those European pianos, the Steinway had a very heavy touch. Of course, the Steinway piano also had heavier strings under higher tension than the European instruments, and was capable of a more powerful tone. But Paderewski found the Steinway action almost intolerable, because of the amount of effort required to play it. The problem was ultimately solved by Steinway providing Paderewski pianos with actions specially 'lightened' or adjusted to his preferences."
http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/touchweight.htm


Professional | 1966 Mason & Hamlin | Kawai ES110 | Mojo 61 |
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: Pianofortissimo] #2937744 01/23/20 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianofortissimo
Well, I'm not agree that sound is not so important. No less than the action. I do not want a piano with great action but poor sound, on which I'm not able to make good performances for other listeners (and for myself). As I know, in last Chopin Piano Competition in Warsaw (2015), each pianist had one Yamaha digital piano in his/her hotel bedroom. And they was all professional pianists. I do not know the model. We will see during next edition in this 2020.


Valentina Lisitsa, Murray Perahia or other great pianists would only maybe practice on a digital, they would never perform on a digital, thus the sound is secondary. And if they only use it for practice, then they better not have a heavy or stiff action that could strain their tendons, especially right before a performance. A realistic action is perhaps of utmost concern.

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937758 01/23/20 07:28 PM
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If, as you suggest, these artists practice on digital pianos, are they not accepting (or tolerating) both the touch and the sound?
And, for talented artists such as these, doesn't the finest sound result from the finest touch?
So how do you reach the conclusion that sound is secondary?

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: MacMacMac] #2937907 01/24/20 05:46 AM
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Pianofortissimo Offline
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Sound can never be secondary for a talented pianist, believe me. Also, what is PRACTICE for a pianist? Do you really believe that a professional pianist can practice on a bad piano just before a performance? Not possible.

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: rintincop] #2937912 01/24/20 06:10 AM
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CyberGene Offline
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Originally Posted by rintincop
Vladimir Horowitz's Steinway D had characteristics of 44-45g downweight, 30-32g upweight.

I see you copy over this to other threads but we've already discussed so many times on this forum that downweight isn't that relevant. If you put 100kg on each side of the key and then add 1g on one side, that will make the key having 1g of downweight but good luck playing that. There's inertia that determines dynamic weight. Static weight isn't the only parameter that determines how heavy a piano keyboard is. A big concert grand requires heavy hammers to be able to produce loud sound. Heavy hammers add high static weight to the key which feels as a constant resistance, similar to a spring. You will feel that when playing slowly since you will have to constantly overcome that weight. Which is why they add lead weights to neutralize for the heavier hammers and so when playing lightly and slowly you won't feel that "spring"-like resistance. However any added mass to any side of the key increases its inertia and makes the key feel sluggish to move both downwards and upwards and will thus hamper the speed of repetition and will as well add a feel of being ultimately heavy.

We need to reconsider what pianos we need. In the 19 century pianos were rather quiet because they didn't have high tension strings and also didn't have heavy hammers and so they had pretty light touch and produced soft and mellow sound with the pianist having much control over quiet dynamics. However with the need for soloing pianists playing in huge concert halls (Liszt) the pianos were optimized more and more for bigger and louder sound which ultimately made keyboards being heavier and control over quiet dynamics was lost. It's a compromise.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/24/20 06:12 AM.

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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937913 01/24/20 06:14 AM
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johnstaf Offline
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Megavirtuoso Cyprien Katsaris has an AvantGrand.

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937917 01/24/20 06:34 AM
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Pete14 Offline
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Okay, I think we need to be clear about something: Cyprien, Dinnnerstein, and Pizzaro are getting paid to endorse the AvantGrand. So, of course, they ‘love’ it; so does Chick Corea, by the way (also a paid contributor).
That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some “professional” pianists whom genuinely enjoy the AvantGrand, but the bunch above, I reiterate, are paid actors (yes, they also happen to be musicians). smile

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: rintincop] #2937921 01/24/20 06:55 AM
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CyberGene Offline
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I just read this and it's very well-written article that actually says what I also described above: adding lead weights to counterbalance the heavy hammers is solving one problem and worsening another. So, unless Horowitz's piano was made with this 44g of downweight only through using lighter hammers and with no counterbalance leads, then yes, that's IMO the best approach too.

The keyboard action I use for my DIY project is 100 year old Langer action with relatively light hammers and no counterbalance weights and it feels very light and nimble, I really love it, especially since I started regulating it. I agree with you that light actions are preferable to heavier action but only when there's no added mass through counterbalance lead weights.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/24/20 06:58 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: Pete14] #2937930 01/24/20 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Okay, I think we need to be clear about something: Cyprien, Dinnnerstein, and Pizzaro are getting paid to endorse the AvantGrand. So, of course, they ‘love’ it; so does Chick Corea, by the way (also a paid contributor).
That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some “professional” pianists whom genuinely enjoy the AvantGrand, but the bunch above, I reiterate, are paid actors (yes, they also happen to be musicians). smile


According to a user on one of the piano forums who visited Pizzaro in his studio, he actually used his. He has a concert grand as well.

Katsaris also used his.

Stephen Hough also has a Yamaha digital, but I think it's portable.

If concert pianists in the past used silent keyboards when a piano wasn't available or if they didn't want to make noise, wouldn't it be strange if modern pianists didn't use digitals?

Of course non-classical pianists have been using digitals since they were first made.

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937938 01/24/20 08:48 AM
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Just a small correction, I think I was the first who wrote "Arthur Pizzaro" and so you followed with this but his name is actually Artur Pizarro, my bad.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: lopmax] #2937940 01/24/20 08:52 AM
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Speaking of heavy keyboards, I am always surprised to read that Steinsways have heavy keyboards.
I payed recently an old one (1930 roughly) (the best piano sound ever...) and it was very light, too light for me to play easily.
I played also a brand new B211 and it was not specially heavy compared to the others (grand or not, dp or not). (Sound was fantastic but not as good as the old one.)

I am not sure that the professionals buy their dp (nor acoustics). I read about a quasi pro who uses an N1 but need a grand to really work in depth.

Last edited by BachToTheFuture; 01/24/20 08:53 AM.

Work in progress : Moszkowski study Op. 72 no. 10 in G minor
My piano : Kawai ES8
Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: CyberGene] #2937944 01/24/20 08:56 AM
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Pizzaro looks better ... because it starts with Pizza! smile
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Just a small correction, I think I was the first who wrote "Arthur Pizzaro" and so you followed with this but his name is actually Artur Pizarro, my bad.

Re: Digital piano and professional pianists [Re: CyberGene] #2937998 01/24/20 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Just a small correction, I think I was the first who wrote "Arthur Pizzaro" and so you followed with this but his name is actually Artur Pizarro, my bad.


Damn it, CG! My gut instinct told me it should be “Pizarro”, but I trusted your spelling instead of double-checking. Now I have to live with this forever, and I tell you, I’m not very happy about it. cry

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