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Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips #2937287 01/22/20 07:05 PM
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Dirkjan Offline OP
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I've decided to make Chopin's nocturne op 48 no 02 my next project. It's been going pretty well and I'm making genuine progress everyday. I find it a reasonably difficult nocturne, but it's not out of my league.

However, I have a problem with the left hand in the first and third section.

It's obvious that the left and right hand should sound as if intertwined. But I just can't seem to get the left hand to "sing" as it should. It either seems rushed, or wooden and stiff.

Are there any tips for the left hand? How should I use the pedal?


Self-taught piano player with a newly bought Casio PX 870.
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Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Dirkjan] #2937320 01/22/20 09:13 PM
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Is your difficulty with the 3 against 2 rhythm? Count each separate beat with 1 2 & 3 playing the triplets on 1 2 3 and the doublets on 1 &.

Once you are playing it without counting in that way, fine tune it when you practice by listening alternately to the doublets and triplets when playing to get each smoothed out and well shaped.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Sweelinck] #2937765 01/23/20 07:39 PM
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I never had any musical education or understand the theory behind it. I just sat down many years ago behind a keyboard when I was 15. I am 26 now and have my own piano. I can read sheet music and know all the symbols but I have no Idea of the theory.

I don't really understand what you mean with:

Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Is your difficulty with the 3 against 2 rhythm? Count each separate beat with 1 2 & 3 playing the triplets on 1 2 3 and the doublets on 1 &.


For example, the Nocturne no 20 also has groups of four notes in the left hand but they are played in the same tempo.The nocturne op 48 no 02 has some kind of sweeping motion. Like the first three notes are faster than the fourth. As if your hand makes a rotating motion.

But it's really difficult to pedal. It either sounds forced or stiff,


Self-taught piano player with a newly bought Casio PX 870.
Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Dirkjan] #2937853 01/24/20 01:34 AM
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I know this will not be the answer you are looking for, and will not be what you want to hear, but my opinion is that your rate of progress will be enhanced significantly by working with a teacher.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Dirkjan] #2937890 01/24/20 04:00 AM
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I agree with Sweelinck. You will need a teacher, this piece is quite difficult, nothing for a self-taught pianist. If you still want to try to make it on your own: the left hand is not really singing, the right hand is. The left hand pattern is always a triplet followed by a fourth, giving a broken chord harmony. The sustain pedal should be applied on the first note of each triplet and released after the fourth before the beginning of the next triplet and the next harmony.
There is another issue: you are playing this piece on a budget DP. On that instrument it will not sound like in the recordings by professional pianists you might have heard on Youtube - you won't be able to bring the melody in the right hand out because the left hand accompaniment will always be as loud as the right hand not matter how soft you try to play the former. I have recorded this piece with the internal sound of my silent system (Chopin, nocturne 48/2) and had the same problem, therefore I do not like my recording and will presumably replace it with a new recording using a VST. If it sounds like that on your DP try to play it on an acoustic grand or with a VST and you will have the impression to be playing a completely different piece.

Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Dirkjan] #2938164 01/24/20 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
I know this will not be the answer you are looking for, and will not be what you want to hear, but my opinion is that your rate of progress will be enhanced significantly by working with a teacher.


That's true. But I really like figuring things out for myself. I'm not saying I won't benefit from having a teacher, but I really like to do it by myself. I have no intention of being a concert pianist or to earn my money with it. It's simply my favourite hobby. The realisation that I'm improving by myself is a very satisfying feeling. Maybe in the future I might consider looking for a teacher, but for now that is not something I want.

Originally Posted by Pianist685
There is another issue: you are playing this piece on a budget DP. On that instrument it will not sound like in the recordings by professional pianists you might have heard on Youtube - you won't be able to bring the melody in the right hand out because the left hand accompaniment will always be as loud as the right hand not matter how soft you try to play the former.


I'm aware of this. But that's not a problem for me. I knew this when I bought this DP. It'll always sound better on a real piano.

Originally Posted by Pianist685
I agree with Sweelinck. You will need a teacher, this piece is quite difficult, nothing for a self-taught pianist. If you still want to try to make it on your own: the left hand is not really singing, the right hand is. The left hand pattern is always a triplet followed by a fourth, giving a broken chord harmony. The sustain pedal should be applied on the first note of each triplet and released after the fourth before the beginning of the next triplet and the next harmony.


This is helpful, thank you.

I'm actually making huge progress playing this piece since I posted this thread. Even though it will never be as good as a professional recording, especially on a DP, but the fact that I'm improving is an amazing feeling.

Your help is appreciated


Self-taught piano player with a newly bought Casio PX 870.
Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Dirkjan] #2938221 01/24/20 09:46 PM
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Hi Dirkjan
I am confused about your different threads: here you are working On 48 2 , which you been have told in difficult but in another thread you acknowledge you choose music that is too difficult and abandon it before completion. You state you should work on some easier prelude.

Why haven’t you moved onto the preludes?


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Dirkjan] #2938273 01/25/20 01:36 AM
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Quote

But I really like figuring things out for myself. I'm not saying I won't benefit from having a teacher, but I really like to do it by myself.

It is of course your choice. Many/most students are not able to figure out for themselves everything they would learn about a piece from a teacher. Maybe you are the exception.

As an example, the first time a student works on a piece with 3 against 2 rhythm, a teacher will guide the student in learning how to count and play such rhythmic constructs. Then the next time the student is confronted with such a rhythm, he or she will have the skills to approach it appropriately. The same is true for a wide range of other musicianship and interpretive skills.

You might consider setting up a first trial lesson and playing Chopin 9/2 for the teacher. See if the teacher says you have gotten everything out of it that there is to convey. Maybe you have and are the exceptional student, but most self-taught pianists will find that they have more to work on, and more to learn from a piece they considered fully learned.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Sweelinck] #2938958 01/26/20 07:01 PM
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Dirkjan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Quote

But I really like figuring things out for myself. I'm not saying I won't benefit from having a teacher, but I really like to do it by myself.

It is of course your choice. Many/most students are not able to figure out for themselves everything they would learn about a piece from a teacher. Maybe you are the exception.

As an example, the first time a student works on a piece with 3 against 2 rhythm, a teacher will guide the student in learning how to count and play such rhythmic constructs. Then the next time the student is confronted with such a rhythm, he or she will have the skills to approach it appropriately. The same is true for a wide range of other musicianship and interpretive skills.

You might consider setting up a first trial lesson and playing Chopin 9/2 for the teacher. See if the teacher says you have gotten everything out of it that there is to convey. Maybe you have and are the exceptional student, but most self-taught pianists will find that they have more to work on, and more to learn from a piece they considered fully learned.


I think you make some good points. I might benefit from a teacher because at the moment I have no reference point for my skill. I can compare it some professional recordings but that will just leave me disappointed and unmotivated. Or I could one of my friends for help or guidance, which is also a bad idea. They wouldn't distinguish a beautiful Ballad from a frog playing chopsticks.

Unfortunately, I don't have the funds or correct the social network for a private teacher. What I can do is use the Internet. It might nog nearly be as good as a private teacher, but I can still ask some questions. And as people have proven, they are willing to help.

I'm actually going to dig around a bit to see what would cost if I chase the bargains. Maybe just for once week. Just to get "a listening ear" pun intended. I've also received a book of excercises and scales (Hanon) from a friend of my mother (who doesn't live in this country and I'm not able to contact.)

You made me realize that however fun and exciting it is to do everything on your own, it might be very helpful to involve some other people, either as a mentor or teacher, or as critics and people who might see things I not see myself.

Thank you. I appreciate this.


Self-taught piano player with a newly bought Casio PX 870.
Re: Chopin Nocturne op 48 no 02 hints and tips [Re: Dirkjan] #2939381 01/27/20 05:52 PM
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Dirkjan, linkerhand alleen, tot het loopt, dan 2 tegen 3 ritme oefenen, het kost tijd, maar het kan, het zit'm in het ritme, the flow will come after some time, take it, don't hurry!


Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

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