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Fingering for a D major arpeggio #2936750 01/21/20 01:59 PM
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RhaegarTargaryen Offline OP
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I'm struggling a bit on the middle section of Chopin's Nocturne 9 opus 1. I'm seeing videos of performers using 5-3-2-1 on the D-A-D-F# arpeggio and others use 5-3-1-2

Examples:

https://youtu.be/kKJbabxjnEw?t=99

https://youtu.be/fvVfi9K7nQ8?t=108


Is there a correct way or is it personal preference?Neither feels particular great for me. I guess crossing over feels more natural but its make transitioning harder as well as concentrating on the right hand melody. I have smaller hands and it's quite the effort to curve my hand to avoid the C#/Db key and then swing around to hit the F#

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Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: RhaegarTargaryen] #2936753 01/21/20 02:11 PM
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Hakki Offline
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Put 1 on 3rd D. That is also the fingering in my Ekier National Edition

Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: Hakki] #2936754 01/21/20 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Put 1 on 3rd D. That is also the fingering in my Ekier National Edition


Yes, use the thumb on second D and cross-over. Rotate your wrist to the right as you play the second D.
To practice, play the last D and F sharp repeatedly and slowly until the movement is ingrained. Then you can concentrate on the right hand. Do not put them together until the left hand is automatic and not a problem


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: RhaegarTargaryen] #2936757 01/21/20 02:17 PM
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Everything feels awkward if you're not used to it. Use whichever fingering feels more comfortable.

At a slow tempo, this is the right piece to practice arpeggios like these, which abound in Romantic music. When you start playing faster music, you'll really appreciate having mastered this kind of LH arpeggios.

Incidentally, I have small hands (reaching 10ths in LH with difficulty and only with preparation, 9ths in RH only) but I have no problem using either fingering. With 5-3-2-1, you need a lot of "wrist rotation".


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: RhaegarTargaryen] #2936760 01/21/20 02:25 PM
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I used 5-3-2-1, but you can play that arpeggio with both. Usually is recommended to use a personal fingering, depending on which ones make you play comfortable and with a proper sound.

My hands can reach a 9th, if that info is useful. If "swinging" the hand across the arpeggio is hard, maybe you need more stretch exercises or just practice. Try playing the arpeggio without the middle Db (Db - Ab - F - Ab - Db) with 5 - 3 - 1. Also playing Db - Ab - Db with 5 - 3 - 2 could help.

Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: RhaegarTargaryen] #2936772 01/21/20 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RhaegarTargaryen


I know that the OP's question was about left hand fingering for the arpeggiated bass. However, watching this video just shows (to me) how misleading, unreliable and just plain bad some online so-called "tutorials" can be for those who might be seeking guidance.

If you watch this player's right hand, you will see that there is no attempt at legato fingering of the octaves. In many instances the right hand notes aren't even held for their full value; just hit the note and let the damper pedal do the rest. That, by any standards that I have been taught, is just bad technique and sloppy playing!

[end of rant!]

Then watch how Barton does it. [Sorry, the second video wouldn't like on this post.]


Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: RhaegarTargaryen] #2936852 01/21/20 06:36 PM
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Sometimes no fingering choice feels really good. You have to choose the lesser of two evils.

Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: RhaegarTargaryen] #2936876 01/21/20 07:39 PM
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I wouldn't be afraid to experiment with several other fingerings, too. For example, 5-5-3-1, or 5-4-2-1. I think any of these could work. But, I try to avoid crossing whenever humanly possible.

Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: MichaelJK] #2936896 01/21/20 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJK
I wouldn't be afraid to experiment with several other fingerings, too. For example, 5-5-3-1, or 5-4-2-1. I think any of these could work. But, I try to avoid crossing whenever humanly possible.



The goal in fingering the arpeggio should be to have a legato sound. I would therefore not consider 5 5 3 1 as an option.

Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: dogperson] #2936933 01/21/20 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
I wouldn't be afraid to experiment with several other fingerings, too. For example, 5-5-3-1, or 5-4-2-1. I think any of these could work. But, I try to avoid crossing whenever humanly possible.



The goal in fingering the arpeggio should be to have a legato sound. I would therefore not consider 5 5 3 1 as an option.


If you use the pedal, there's no reason it can't sound legato. (always bearing in mind that the piano is a percussion instrument which never actually sounds legato)

Last edited by MichaelJK; 01/21/20 11:51 PM.
Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: MichaelJK] #2936944 01/22/20 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by MichaelJK
I wouldn't be afraid to experiment with several other fingerings, too. For example, 5-5-3-1, or 5-4-2-1. I think any of these could work. But, I try to avoid crossing whenever humanly possible.



The goal in fingering the arpeggio should be to have a legato sound. I would therefore not consider 5 5 3 1 as an option.


If you use the pedal, there's no reason it can't sound legato. (always bearing in mind that the piano is a percussion instrument which never actually sounds legato)


I do not agree with the statement that using the damper pedal will be same effect irrespective of the fingering.... but each pianist will need to listen and make his/her own decision.

Re: Fingering for a D major arpeggio [Re: RhaegarTargaryen] #2937382 01/23/20 02:11 AM
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Learn from the masters (especially watch the slight wrist movement at 02:20 ff): Vladimir Ashkenazy playing Chopin op. 9 No 1


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