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Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936210 01/20/20 09:29 AM
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Last edited by TheophilusCarter; 01/20/20 09:39 AM.

Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Future: Kawai CA79?
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Roland KC-80, PianoTeq (Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo)
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Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: TheophilusCarter] #2936221 01/20/20 09:53 AM
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Thanks, appreciate the input, but those are mixers, not much smaller than a Behringer Q502 which I have lying around. And don't want to use that.
I'm looking for something that LOOKS like this :
http://en.rode.com/accessories/sc6

... something that plugs in directly into one of the headphone out sockets of the ES110 with a male TRS jack, with a female stereo 3.5mm (or 1/4 inch) IN for the iPad, and then routes both the audio coming from the ES110 from the headphone out AND the audio from the iPad's stereo in, to a female TRS OUT.
So, basically, a plug with a female TRS OUT on one end, and a male TRS IN on the other, and with a female TRS IN for good measure. smile
But I believe that such a thing does not exist...


Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: dmd] #2936276 01/20/20 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
I do not understand output jacks being used to input sound from an iPad.


Good. It's a bad idea anyway and the right solution is to use a mixer. smile

There could even be a risk of some damage. I guess it depends on the output impedances of the two sources. (Or something like that...)

But it does work on my Kawai ES-100. Not that I'll use it.

Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936283 01/20/20 01:43 PM
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Well, if there's a risk of damaging the board, then it's not worth it.
Unless I find some sort of solution, I'm not getting the ES110 then. Shame, I believe this to be an almighty cock-up for what is otherwise a very good DP...

Been looking at combining several adapters : I could use a 1/4 inch male TRS to male TRS, which would give me a male TRS plug sticking out of the ES110. After that, I'd need some sort of plug with two female TRS stereo IN connections (the male TRS from the ES110 and a male TRS from the iPad), and a female TRS stereo OUT for my headphones... Wonder if I could find such a contraption...


Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936297 01/20/20 02:10 PM
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With a "contraption" of such passive cables you'd still be connecting two audio sources directly together (which might be bad.) And to the headphones. Just as if you were (ab)using the dual headphone output of a digital piano. If there's a "Y" there somewhere it's being used the wrong way.

You can of course look at feeding the digital piano sound into the iPad and once it's there it can perhaps be mixed with other audio from an iOS app. You'd use a USB/Lightning based "audio interface" for that.

But I don't even own any iOS devices, so can't talk much about that.

And it's easier to just buy a cheap mixer. smile

Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: clothearednincompo] #2936303 01/20/20 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
And it's easier to just buy a cheap mixer. smile


I know. Have one. Won't use it...

Fact : Kawai made a mistake here. Too bad. Will take my money elsewhere...


Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936604 01/21/20 07:28 AM
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> Thanks, appreciate the input, but those are mixers ...

Well, a mixer is exactly what you need for this, you can only try finding the smallest one possible. They could be made quite small with 3.5mm plugs and least knobs, but the mixing preamp inside needs power.

Headphone splitters have just direct connection but don't try using them, damage possible.

IK Multimedia has some small devices but I guess don't fit either: https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irig2/ https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigmiclav/

Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: ChrisGoesPiano] #2936607 01/21/20 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
And it's easier to just buy a cheap mixer. smile


I know. Have one. Won't use it...

Fact : Kawai made a mistake here. Too bad. Will take my money elsewhere...


That is not a fact, obviously. The facts are that the cheapest Kawai slab lacks a feature any interested user can easily and cheaply add themselves, and that you simply refuse to do so. While that is your call to make I dont see how that is a 'mistake' on their part. You are basically arguing that it is a mistake that the cheapest pizza on the menu lacks rucola while refusing to add the rucola you already have to the pizza...

Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936608 01/21/20 07:46 AM
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Have given up, there is no solution to my problem.
And it's not just the ES110 : Korg D1, Roland FP30 also have this problem. The Yamaha P125 comes with AUX In and even audio over USB : a true example to all the rest, but unfortunately, let down by the key action.
Perfection really does not exist. Sigh.

Casio PX-S1000 seems to tick all the boxes, but plugging an iPad into the Line-IN apparently causes quite a lot of hiss...
Guess I won't find what I'm looking for in this price range.


Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: ChrisGoesPiano] #2936615 01/21/20 08:26 AM
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You want a feature that is provided by the ES8, so if it’s that important, get the ES8. The ES 110 is an excellent piano and would work very well for you, but you are too stubborn to accept that. That’s just the way you are. But you would now be better off taking the whining off-line and not continuing to insult people who are trying to help you by giving you good advice.


Rodney Sauer
Kawai KG-2E • Kawai ES8
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: ColoRodney] #2936619 01/21/20 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoRodney
You want a feature that is provided by the ES8, so if it’s that important, get the ES8. The ES 110 is an excellent piano and would work very well for you, but you are too stubborn to accept that. That’s just the way you are. But you would now be better off taking the whining off-line and not continuing to insult people who are trying to help you by giving you good advice.


Where did I insult anyone ?
I appreciate the suggestions, and I know a mixer will work, but I want a minimalistic solution without the use of a mixer... The ES8 and MP7SE both have line-in, just like my MP11SE, I realize that.
I'm just looking for a simple solution to be able to hear both the iPad and the ES110 when using headphones, nothing else.

If I may make one last suggestion :
What if I use one of these to plug into the headphone out of the ES110
https://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Male-Adapter/dp/B0058M2UXK
(using a 3.5mm to 1/4 inch adapter, of course)

and then use one of these :
https://www.amazon.com/Stereo-1-Female-2-Females-Splitter-Changer/dp/B0009JFF7U
the aforementioned adapter, plugged into the ES110 would go into one 'female' connection, the iPad into the other, both leading to the one other female connection where I could plug in my headphones.

If I'm not mistaken, I'd have two audio sources (ES110 and iPad) arriving into the 'splitter', which are then both routed to my headphones. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Apologies for the insults in advance...

Last edited by ChrisGoesPiano; 01/21/20 08:45 AM.

Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936624 01/21/20 08:55 AM
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Chris ….

This is too simple to be spending all this energy trying to come up with some sort of imaginative solution for this.

Why not just call one of the online stores which deal with digital pianos and tell them what you want to do and actually discuss it with them ?

They do this for a living and will give you the best advice on the planet.

Good Luck


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936627 01/21/20 08:58 AM
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Those kinds of cables are meant to split signals, nor combine them. It might work. It might sound like crap. It might damage your equipment. I guess it's up to you if you want to risk it.

At that price point, I think you're limited to the Yamaha, or maybe a Casio PX-360 (I haven't looked in a while, so check to be sure). I don't think you have an option for Roland or Kawai without going to the $1500+ range. I'm not familiar enough with other brands to say.


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Future: Kawai CA79?
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Roland KC-80, PianoTeq (Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo)
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936633 01/21/20 09:41 AM
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Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936667 01/21/20 10:58 AM
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Unfortunately it is totally normal that buyers get frustrated because exactly the product they'd like doesn't exist on the market or at a reasonable price.
There is surely something wrong with the ES8 too, for instance it may be heavier than desired :evil:

> Casio PX-S1000 seems to tick all the boxes, but plugging an iPad into the Line-IN apparently causes quite a lot of hiss...

Noise is one possible common issue with mixers, particularly cheapos (bad amps).
Ground loops or other grounding or EM interference problems may cause it, and this tends to happen with other DPs with built-in mixers too - the more wires, the more likely.
Yes the PX-S1000 has a lot of check marks on the specs list. But in person, I didn't like the key action, and I couldn't live with its built-in speakers either.

Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: ChrisGoesPiano] #2936683 01/21/20 11:19 AM
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This is mainly a passive headphone splitter (you get even much smaller 2-way splitters). It might work as a passive mixer, no idea if there are any components inside, but the outcome may highly depend on the properties of the outputs you plug in, because the impedances are not adapted. You say you have a proper mixer, better use that.

Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: TheophilusCarter] #2936690 01/21/20 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TheophilusCarter


I had not seen mixers that small before, cool. Probably more to come.


Professional | 1966 Mason & Hamlin | Kawai ES110 | Mojo 61 |
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936696 01/21/20 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rintincop
Originally Posted by TheophilusCarter


Very cool! I had not seen mixers that small and inexpensive before, and I had been looking. Thanks


Welcome. If you get one, report back as to its sound quality, as I'd be curious.


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Future: Kawai CA79?
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Roland KC-80, PianoTeq (Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo)
Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: rintincop] #2936734 01/21/20 01:24 PM
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At least the Belkin Rockstar is marketed as a headphone splitter. (And not as an "audio combiner" i.e. a mixer.)

So, it's electronically no different from (ab)using the dual headphone output on a digital piano if it just connects everything together as-is.

There's e.g. this discussion on an electronics related forum about using a Y-cable for combining audio: Would a sound splitter work in reverse?

(And plenty more in the internets...)

Music Marvel's interestingly named Audio Mixing Cable is out of stock. smirk

If it has some resistors and stuff inside it could be a "proper" passive mixer. In which case it would decrease the signal levels a little. But not be potentially fatal to the devices. wink

Oh, and I don't think there really has been any whining or insults, but instead meta discussion has a tendency to make things personal (when they weren't in the first place) and may lead to whining and insults. laugh

And I guess the harm was already done to this thread, but of course there's always the option to start a new one on the current hot topic. People might not know to look into an ES-110 review topic to find hints (good or bad) about combining audio from various sources.

Re: Kawai ES110, my review [Re: ChrisGoesPiano] #2936743 01/21/20 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisGoesPiano
Have given up, there is no solution to my problem.
And it's not just the ES110 : Korg D1, Roland FP30 also have this problem. The Yamaha P125 comes with AUX In and even audio over USB : a true example to all the rest, but unfortunately, let down by the key action.
Perfection really does not exist. Sigh.

Casio PX-S1000 seems to tick all the boxes, but plugging an iPad into the Line-IN apparently causes quite a lot of hiss...
Guess I won't find what I'm looking for in this price range.


The thing is, that the computer is supposed to provide the Line-Input, not your piano. In the past a Stereo Line-In connected to real-time digital mixer was standard feature of personal computers, but that never happened on tablets like the iPad.

You don't realize, that it's your iPad, which is missing the essential features. The iPad needs a proper audio interface connected via USB (camera connection kit), for example this one:

[Linked Image]

https://new.steinberg.net/audio-interfaces/ur22c/

It provides to two channels Line Input connecting the ES110 (or any other instrument) standard TS instrument cables, as well as two channel Line output via TS connectors and headphones for real time monitoring. It makes the iPad capable of doing the things you want.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
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