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Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions #2935814 01/18/20 04:09 PM
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varignet Offline OP
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Hi,

I would like to connect the mp7se to a midi audio interface plugged to my iphone and record midi.
I would also like to connect another synth, the nord lead a1 and would like to be able to record midi inputs coming from either the synth or the mp7se onto the iphone.
I would also like to record audio out using the audio interface coming from both the nord lead a1 and mp7se which I've already sorted thanks to the mp7se's lineIn.

Currently the mp7se in/out midi connectors are in use to communicate with the nord lead a1 (in into out and out into in).

- Do you know whether it would be possible to use the mp7se usb-midi interface, connect it to a usb to midi converter and finally to the midi audio interface?

- Alternatively do you know whether the mp7se usb-midi could be connected into the other synth's usb port in order for midi in/out to function properly, and finally use the mp7se midi ports to connect to the midi audio interface?

Please note I haven't purchased the audio interface as of yet and an audio interface with dual usb ports (one for midi and one to connect to the pc/iphone) would solve the issue.
However I can't seem to find such a thing on the market and the closest (allowing audio and midi) requires the midi signal to come via the midi ports rather than usb.

Thanks for your support and thoughts!
Luca

Last edited by varignet; 01/18/20 04:13 PM.
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Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2935825 01/18/20 04:41 PM
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Frédéric L Offline
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Most USB-MIDI adaptor are made to link a MIDI device with a computer (rectangle USB-A socket). With a device (MP7SE) and its square USB-B socket, you need a MIDI USB Host adaptor like the one from Kenton, Miditech or Cerebel.

You need also a Class Compliant device. I don’t know if the MP7SE is. It should be since I don’t find specific driver for it.

-

You can’t link two devices (square USB-B socket) together.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 01/18/20 04:44 PM.

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Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2935827 01/18/20 04:44 PM
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I haven’t used these features, but I think you can do most or all of that with just the MP7SE. It can digitize and record the audio sent to its line in, either standalone or mixed with the MP7SE audio. It also can record midi generated by the MP7SE. Not sure that you could record midi generated by the external synthesizer.

The main potential downside is it will record 16x44.1. If the Nord Lead A1 generates 24-bit content, I’d prefer to record 24x44.1. I’m not sure if the MP7SE has 24-bit samples.

If you want a flexible setup, get a recording interface for a computer. Some of those just use midi for external device control, but it appears to me from the online description that a Mackie Producer 2-2 can record midi tracks as well as digital audio tracks. No doubt there are others as well.

I’m skeptical that an iPhone solution will be very flexible or achieve the best audio quality (if it will work at all) but I’ve not tried to use one in that way, so perhaps someone will prove me wrong,


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: Sweelinck] #2935838 01/18/20 05:28 PM
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Thanks for the quick responses.

@Frederic,
thanks for the tip about the usb to midi adapter. So it would need to be one of those more expensive little boxes.

@Sweelinck, To answer your question no it is not possible to record midi in when recording midi on the mp7se unfortunately.
I get your point about quality.
If I was to plug the mp7se to an audio interface and this one to a PC, wouldn't it be easier to connect the mp7se straight to the pc via usb midi? I don't think you would need an audio interface for that, but I would of course use an audio interface for audio.

However I would still prefer the conveniency of using an Iphone, I cannot afford the space and rig to have a laptop next to my keyboards.
I could however record everythign I need on an iphone for subsequent editing on a laptop elsewhere.

There is another option:
I could record midi from either keyboards (via the mp7se usb-midi connected to an iphone, how however to be decided).
And subsequently playback midi from the iphone and via the usb-midi mp7se capabilities and record audio on the mp7se using the built-in audio recorder. Would this be more feasible?

Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2935878 01/18/20 07:28 PM
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Quote

If I was to plug the mp7se to an audio interface and this one to a PC, wouldn't it be easier to connect the mp7se straight to the pc via usb midi? I don't think you would need an audio interface for that, but I would of course use an audio interface for audio.

A midi interface just lets you capture midi not the audio output. Audio interfaces digitize analog audio and send the digital output to a PC. A few audio interfaces also capture midi as a bonus but not their main purpose.

If you will record audio from the two keyboards with your MP7SE then you might be able to use a midi interface to record midi. If you want to play both keyboards in producing a single piece you are recording, you will need a midi mixer or midi interface with that capability.

What is your goal expressed in musical terms? You seem to be making this more complicated than need be.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2936054 01/19/20 08:26 PM
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Hello varignet,

I believe it should be possible for the MIDI OUT from the Nord to connect to the MIDI IN on the MP7SE, and then for the MIDI OUT from the MP7SE to connect to the MIDI IN on a MIDI interface, or for the USB-MIDI to connect to a computer (or even an iPhone, with the correct cables).

Please check the MIDI routing settings in the SYSTEM:MIDI menu.

Regarding audio, it should be possible for the LINE OUTs from the Nord to connect to the LINE INs on the MP7SE, and then for the LINE OUTs from the MP7SE to connect to an audio interface.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2936099 01/19/20 11:56 PM
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If you want a single performance of a single piece using both instruments that may not preserve timing precision due to midi latency issues— would need to try it. It would not be a preferred way to make a recording.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2936162 01/20/20 05:58 AM
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@Sweelinck
"What is your goal expressed in musical terms? " This struck me as I was unable to answer easily and I'm probably over-engineering it.

@Kawai James
You pretty much described by setup, I currently have midi cables to/from between the nla1 and the mp7se, nla1 lineOut into mp7se lineIn and mp7se lineout to my monitor speakers.
I can listen to both keyboards and record audio from both using the mp7se recorder. I wonder if it was possible to playback a midi track from a PC onto the nla1 or mp7se and record audio coming from either on the mp7se.

I'm going to assess what the current midi options of the setup are (by attaching the mp7se usb midi out straight to my PC), have a think and touch base with a clearer idea in a few days. Until then, thank you all for your replies!
Luca



Last edited by varignet; 01/20/20 06:01 AM.
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2936357 01/20/20 04:04 PM
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If you record midi from both keyboards together as a single performance, you would need to use a separate midi channel transmitted. The midi file would be multichannel and thus could not be rendered by the MP7SE by itself. It does not (as far as I know) support the rendering of simultaneous multichannel midi. For rendering the midi you would run midi out from the computer to one keyboard and the midi “thru” output to the midi input of the other keyboard and then make sure each keyboard is set to render the desired channel.

If you set up the midi recording setup and play a scale in unison or an octave apart with both hands, one on each keyboard simultaneously then render the music with the second configuration you can see if the timing of the scale notes is preserved or if some are rendered early or late in one of the keyboards due to midi latency issues that accumulate through both setups.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2938549 01/25/20 06:11 PM
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Fantastic news: I successfully have the two keyboards recording and playing back on separate tracks simultaneously via usb cable connected to my laptop.
I Assigned two separate global midi channels (15 nord lead a1, 16 mp7se) and enabled all of the usb options under the mp7se system-midi menu. Recording midi tracks on Ableton live one per keyboard is a breeze.
As a bonus it is even possible to use the internal recorder to record midi playingback from the PC. Cool!


I tried going one step further with the mp7se
but I can't seem to be able to record and playback the mp7se's internal zones on separate midi tracks and channels:

In the case of a simple two zones setup, main=Piano (midi channel3) and sub1=strings (midi channel4),
I can record the two zones onto two separate midi tracks. However playback doesn't really work.

I tried changing system-MIDI Rcv.Mode and this is what happens with the following settings:
- Panel:no audio playback
- Multi: playback only using the piano sound and regardless of whether the zone is on or off
- Omni: zones on/off respected, HOWEVER both tracks playback by all zones regardless of the zone's midi channel and regardless of the track's out midi channel.

Surely I'm doing something wrong?
Thanks for your help!

My setup:

Last edited by varignet; 01/25/20 06:20 PM.
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2939890 01/28/20 05:14 PM
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Update, I found a solution however the keyboard does not seem to adhere to what written on the manual at page 110.

The solution to record and playback one midi track per zone is the following:
-set interested zones to int/ext
-make sure zones ch are set to 1,2,3,4
-change system -> MIDI -> Rcv.Mode to Multi
-in the additional set of pages, set MIDI Receive Channels to
ch1 to main, ch2 to sub1, ch3 to sub2,ch4 to sub3

With the above configuration, contrary to what it says in the manual, zones' on/off status, volume and sounds are respected during MIDI playback, which is great.



On the other hand setting the system -> MIDI -> Receive Channels to ON does not respect zone on/off status, volume and sounds.

Also, oddily enough with this setup, playing back from a PC a midi track I can hear a piano sound when outputting midi channels 1-4 except for 2. When outputting from Ableton midi channel 2 I can hear a musette instead.
I changed sound, setup and reset the mp7se but it behaves the same way each time.

I currently have system -> MIDI SETUP Program, SETUP Bank, SETUP Volume, SETUP Knob to off, would this have something to do with the above?
I'm on firmware 1.03 and using Ableton Live. It's more of a curiosity but I thought to share this.

Thanks
L

Last edited by varignet; 01/28/20 05:20 PM.
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2939928 01/28/20 06:32 PM
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Kawai James Offline
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Hello varignet,

Originally Posted by varignet
...the keyboard does not seem to adhere to what written on the manual at page 110.

The solution to record and playback one midi track per zone is the following:
-set interested zones to int/ext
-make sure zones ch are set to 1,2,3,4
-change system -> MIDI -> Rcv.Mode to Multi
-in the additional set of pages, set MIDI Receive Channels to
ch1 to main, ch2 to sub1, ch3 to sub2,ch4 to sub3

With the above configuration, contrary to what it says in the manual, zones' on/off status, volume and sounds are respected during MIDI playback, which is great.


May I ask you to clarify which specific passages of the owner's manual are inaccurate, please?
(i.e. what is currently written, and what you believe *should* be written)

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2941861 02/02/20 05:29 PM
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Hi James,

Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to go back to it over the course of this weekend as I was hoping to do, I'll get back to you with specifics as soon as I can.

P.s.
From my point of view I'd be curious to figure out why, with receive channels set to ON (rather than Main/Sub1-3), Rcv.Mode set to multi and sound to panel, and playing back a midi track,
the following channels play the following sound, regardless of internal sound selected, zones on/off statues and zone volume:
1 piano
2 accordion
3 piano
4 piano

Of course it could be user error or something to do with my setup (or Ableton). I'd like to give it another proper go as soon as I get the chance.
Thanks
L

Re: Kawai mp7se usb-midi questions [Re: varignet] #2941925 02/02/20 08:33 PM
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Kawai James Offline
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I'm afraid I don't know.

However, I would perhaps start with from a Factory Reset state and check the situation after changing each setting to see how it influences your configuration.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019

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