2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
45 registered members (barbaram, EPW, CyberGene, Craig Hair, Doug M., BachToTheFuture, AYS, Frédéric L, 10 invisible), 352 guests, and 446 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: OE1FEU] #2935771 01/18/20 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
U
U3piano Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by OE1FEU
You need a USB-A input to USB-C output adapter. That's a short cable adapter which you use to plug the Steinberg audio interface into and then plug the USB-C into the phone. Android should give you an option to select USB to go and then the audio interface is powered up. There are a lot of free camera apps that allow you to select the microphone input once the audio interface is activated and available to the phone.
That's it.


Seriously... That is just golden information!

Here i am thinking I know things and shopping for computers, while I'm typing on the touchscreen of the easiest solution right now.

Thanks alot! I had no idea an audio interface could work with a phone (or other Ios/Android device) this way. I just assumed it needed a pc. I will try this for sure, and because of it I will probably not have to buy a pc or a camera at all, just an audio interface, some microphones and some stand to hold my phone. cool

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2935786 01/18/20 03:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
O
OE1FEU Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by U3piano


Seriously... That is just golden information!

Here i am thinking I know things and shopping for computers, while I'm typing on the touchscreen of the easiest solution right now.

Thanks alot! I had no idea an audio interface could work with a phone (or other Ios/Android device) this way. I just assumed it needed a pc. I will try this for sure, and because of it I will probably not have to buy a pc or a camera at all, just an audio interface, some microphones and some stand to hold my phone. cool


I am glad this gave you new ideas. It's the result of tinkering around with a lot of stuff and it was an idea I had which sounded crazy at the first moment, but in the end it turned out to do the job. FYI, the camera app I used is called "Open Camera" and it's is free and Open Source and you can specifically select the external microphones as a source in the video settings.

I cannot say whether this will work with your Xiaomei phone, but the Steinberg interface definitely lists an iPad as a supported option, so there you go. It might actually work with a dedicated digital camera that has USB-C inputs, but that I cannot confirm, it's just a guess.

Whatever, you're in for a wild ride starting to record your piano - it took me countless hours of tinkering with microphone set up and placement to come up with a results that I find acceptable. The first recordings I made after the piano had arrived were just painful to listen to, both in terms of the instrument and the recorded sound. Took me two years of a) investing 7000 EUR into rebuilding the action, b) many hours of practicing the piano and c) many frustrating hours of microphone tinkering, but it was well worth the ride.

For entertainment purposes here is one the first recordings, actually done with the Rødes and a DR44-WL that a friend borrowed me at that time before I bought the same set up myself. As I said: Strictly for entertainment purposes only, bad piano playing included:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nDKui9ISaeX8V69-7S6u2dwrq3YiKlPi

Oh, and here is a full description of the wild ride, including a documentation of the action rebuild. It's in German, but google translate does a good job:

https://www.clavio.de/threads/steinway-b-seriennummer-60103-1887.23873/

Last edited by OE1FEU; 01/18/20 03:10 PM.
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2935941 01/19/20 02:15 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
From the Behringer C-2 manual:

Quote
After each use, wipe the microphone down with a soft cloth and place it back into its protective casing (included with the microphone). Then, lay the small bag containing the moisture-absorbing crystals on top of the microphone head.


(applies to all condenser mics of other makes too)

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2935979 01/19/20 08:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
U
U3piano Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
OE1FEU, that has been quite the project, an interesting read! It makes me wonder how my own recording attempts will go, i'm sure frustration will come into play, but i think it will be fun as well. smile

Originally Posted by Hakki
From the Behringer C-2 manual:

Quote
After each use, wipe the microphone down with a soft cloth and place it back into its protective casing (included with the microphone). Then, lay the small bag containing the moisture-absorbing crystals on top of the microphone head.


(applies to all condenser mics of other makes too)


In reality, would most people actually do this? I have my doubts about that. smile

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936002 01/19/20 12:35 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
Well I do it with my NT5s. But would I do it if I had Behringer C-2 s ?

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2936004 01/19/20 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
U
U3piano Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Hakki
Well I do it with my NT5s. But would I do it if I had Behringer C-2 s ?


Yes, I understand. One more reason for me to start with c2's. smirk

I would probably do it too with more expensive microphones.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936015 01/19/20 02:02 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by Hakki
Well I do it with my NT5s. But would I do it if I had Behringer C-2 s ?


Yes, I understand. One more reason for me to start with c2's. smirk

I would probably do it too with more expensive microphones.


Then you can go with:

Behringer C-2s 38 Euros
Behringer Usb Q802 Mixer 49 Euros
Plus about 40 Euros for mic stands, XLR cables, OTG cable, etc.

And you are ready to go as described here:

https://youtu.be/njUPULkaMpg

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2936161 01/20/20 05:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
U
U3piano Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Hakki
Then you can go with:

Behringer C-2s 38 Euros
Behringer Usb Q802 Mixer 49 Euros
Plus about 40 Euros for mic stands, XLR cables, OTG cable, etc.

And you are ready to go as described here:

https://youtu.be/njUPULkaMpg


Turns out i can get started quite inexpensively after all.

And of course there even is a YouTube video about it, convenient times we live in! Boring almost, no pride in having figured things out all by yourself. smirk

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936245 01/20/20 11:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
O
OE1FEU Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
If you know what 'root' on Android means and how to root your devices, there is a cute app in the PlayStore called Remodroid. With this app you can remotely control another Android device's camera. Really handy when you record your own playing, but definitely needs a rooted device.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2936249 01/20/20 11:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,494
J
Jethro Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,494
Originally Posted by Hakki
Well I do it with my NT5s. But would I do it if I had Behringer C-2 s ?


I have the Behringer C-2's and had no idea I was supposed to keep those silica gel packets. Doh! Going to put some DampRid packets in my drawer.

Last edited by Jethro; 01/20/20 11:31 AM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936266 01/20/20 12:18 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by Hakki
Then you can go with:

Behringer C-2s 38 Euros
Behringer Usb Q802 Mixer 49 Euros
Plus about 40 Euros for mic stands, XLR cables, OTG cable, etc.

And you are ready to go as described here:

https://youtu.be/njUPULkaMpg


Turns out i can get started quite inexpensively after all.

And of course there even is a YouTube video about it, convenient times we live in! Boring almost, no pride in having figured things out all by yourself. smirk


Ok I take back my suggestion. Because the audio bitrate and sampling rate cannot be set by Open Camera app.
Yes it lets you select external microphone but that's it.
I connected a Usb souncard with OTG cable to my phone and it works (after setting Usb as sound source as described) But since I can't set audio quality, my phone recorded sound with lossy AAC codec at 48 kHz. That is the default for my phone.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936280 01/20/20 01:36 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
Also the USB connection on Behringer Q802 is limited to 16 bit 48 kHz.

Therefore I revert back to my original suggestion:

Go from the main mix out of a mixer to the LINE IN of a Zoom Q4n or a similar device where you can set audio format to WAV 24 bit 96 kHz.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936286 01/20/20 01:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
U
U3piano Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
Hmmm... interesting new find, that does make your original suggestion look better on paper again.

On the other hand, isn't 16-bit 44khz already CD-quality? Will 24-bit 96khz make noticable difference?

Something about mixers vs audio interfaces: I read an article about this. It recommended audio interfaces over mixers when you don't need all the knobs etc, because they usually have better pre-amps compared to mixers in the same price-class. That does sound believable to me, since a mixer is actually an audio interface plus extra's, which means less of the price goes into pre-amp's etc. So i could go with an audio interface -> Line-in on Q4n.

But first, i guess it won't hurt to just buy the microphones and an OTG cable, to see how that works and sounds with my focusrite 2i4 from upstairs and my android phone.


Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2936291 01/20/20 02:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
O
OE1FEU Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by Hakki

I connected a Usb souncard with OTG cable to my phone and it works (after setting Usb as sound source as described) But since I can't set audio quality, my phone recorded sound with lossy AAC codec at 48 kHz. That is the default for my phone.




FYI, this is the audio of a youtube video, which seems to be your main platform:

Code
 (+) Audio --aid=1 (*) (aac 2ch 44100Hz)


I'd say it's good enough.

And the Steinberg interface that I suggested earlier does 24/192.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936294 01/20/20 02:03 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
Your xiaomi mi a2 records at 96 kbps. That is very very low quality. It may sound good to you but in fact it is way inferior sound quality.
Probably that explains the inferior sound quality of OE1EFU's Scriabin recording as well.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2936314 01/20/20 03:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,494
J
Jethro Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,494
Originally Posted by Hakki
Also the USB connection on Behringer Q802 is limited to 16 bit 48 kHz.

Therefore I revert back to my original suggestion:

Go from the main mix out of a mixer to the LINE IN of a Zoom Q4n or a similar device where you can set audio format to WAV 24 bit 96 kHz.

Or if you have a spare camera laying around the H1n can record in WAV format at 96 kHz and you have the option to use the LINE IN from the mixer to a pair of mics like the C-2 Behringers. I recorded straight from my H1n a few weeks back and the recording was fine. Really no trouble syncing audio/video in iMovie. About as inexpensive as you can go without sacrificing too much in quality. How does your 1985 Yamaha U3 sound? I think the condition of your piano will play a more significant role for sound quality in your particular instance than the recording equipment.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936331 01/20/20 03:18 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
From YouTube help:

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6039860?hl=en

Or

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/1722171?hl=en

In short either upload 24 bit 48 kHz Flac/Lpcm for Content ID music videos or 384 kbps 48/96 kHz AAC audio for other stereo videos.

Last edited by Hakki; 01/20/20 03:19 PM.
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936349 01/20/20 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
O
OE1FEU Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
O
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 288
I wouldn't call the sound quality inferior, but you have a point in regard to the bit rate.

I am currently inquiring at both the OnePlus and the XDA forum to find out whether one can boost the bitrate to a higher level. I have already found the corresponding file on the phone where the parameters for audio aac are defined and indeed it has 96000 as the maximum. I'll probably contact the Open Camera developers as well to see what their view on this is I am aware of some discussions in this regard already, but so far the developers have only mentioned that it's on their to-do list.

I'll keep you updated.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2936360 01/20/20 04:15 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
H
Hakki Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,383
U3piano:

Suppose that you made a recording with the C-2s and want to evaluate the quality of the recorded sound.
My point is that, for this to be a reliable evaluation, you should record at high quality, that is uncompressed WAV or FLAC at 24 bit 48 kHz or 96 kHz. Of course you should then listen on quality headphones.

Last edited by Hakki; 01/20/20 04:15 PM.
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2936789 01/21/20 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
U
U3piano Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Hakki

Suppose that you made a recording with the C-2s and want to evaluate the quality of the recorded sound.
My point is that, for this to be a reliable evaluation, you should record at high quality, that is uncompressed WAV or FLAC at 24 bit 48 kHz or 96 kHz. Of course you should then listen on quality headphones.


Well, I think I could try that. I just found a Zoom H4 that i bought about 15 years ago and totally forgot about. It has 2 xlr inputs with phantom power, so I think it's a nice way to finally start recording something. Of course it's an older device, and i don't think it's pre-amps are the best out there, but at least it records in 24 bit 96khz WAV.

One question before I place my order for the C-2's and some other stuff: My piano is in the living room, so I want to have my permanent recording setup look as minimalistic as possible. That means I don't want seperate mic stands. I am thinking of goosenecks for the microphones that I will attach to the top of my piano with clamps.

Since the goosenecks will be attached to the piano itself, does that mean i will need shockmounts? I'd rather do without them, since that would be more minimalistic, but I can imagine it is needed because otherwise the vibration of the piano will get to the microphones.

Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Rebuilt Steinways (was)? PFKAS?
by Maestro Lennie - 02/19/20 07:19 AM
Yamaha YDP s52 or Casio CDP 220R
by Love4Music - 02/18/20 09:11 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,056
Posts2,927,366
Members96,039
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3