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N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound #2935646 01/18/20 09:31 AM
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dima5222 Offline OP
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Hi to all!

I would like to know how you see the tonal difference between the Avantgrand N1x and a Clavinova such as the CLP-645?
There is no doubt that the action of the N1x is way better but how do you compare the sound?

Both have Yamaha CFX (with binaural sampling) and the Bösendorfer Imperial.

Was anyone able to compare those side by side?

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Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935653 01/18/20 09:51 AM
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EricF Offline
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This is a tuff question.

I tried both at the same store using the same headphones.
Even tough i didnt like playing the clavinova at all i think the samples
sounded the same.

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: EricF] #2935658 01/18/20 10:10 AM
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dima5222 Offline OP
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So it was just a matter of the better action for you?

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935660 01/18/20 10:16 AM
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Pete14 Offline
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I’m more curious about how the upcoming CLP7XX will compare to the AvantGrands in all aspects.

I assume Yamaha will make some improvements to the sound engine? Perhaps a tweak or two for the action?
I wouldn’t mind a few more speakers for the current 645; this would bring it up to six. And hopefully they will improve the cabinet design for all the models.

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935698 01/18/20 11:30 AM
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EricF Offline
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Originally Posted by dima5222
So it was just a matter of the better action for you?


See thats the reason it is a tuff question for me. When i was looking for a new piano
I was looking for the package that fitted MY needs the best.
And the action was a verry important factor.

You can always change the sound with vst's, different speakers or headphones.
But you wont be able to change the action.

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: Pete14] #2935707 01/18/20 11:57 AM
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lovelovemale Offline
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m more curious about how the upcoming CLP7XX will compare to the AvantGrands in all aspects.


When is there an upcoming CLP7XX ?
Currently at the NAMM 2020 nothing has been announced, so Kawai is still leading the game :P

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: lovelovemale] #2935719 01/18/20 12:18 PM
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Kougeru Offline
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Some old posts said YAMAHA usually announces Clavinova at another event. In Spring IIRC. I'm hoping they upgrade the actions across all levels. Speaker issues I can fix myself

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: Kougeru] #2935724 01/18/20 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kougeru
Some old posts said YAMAHA usually announces Clavinova at another event. In Spring IIRC. I'm hoping they upgrade the actions across all levels. Speaker issues I can fix myself


Unfortunatly it doesent make much sense from a business perspective to bring any major improvements.
There will be tiny improvements and fixes but nothing Major.

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: lovelovemale] #2935725 01/18/20 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m more curious about how the upcoming CLP7XX will compare to the AvantGrands in all aspects.


When is there an upcoming CLP7XX ?
Currently at the NAMM 2020 nothing has been announced, so Kawai is still leading the game :P

One day, maybe summer namm… they have to… they seriously walking behind now compared to Roland HP, LX and Kawai CA , NV.

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935728 01/18/20 12:48 PM
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Gombessa Offline
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The binaural sound may indeed be the same patch. However, one of the hallmarks of the AvantGrands is their multi-channel sampling output. The pianos in AGs are sampled with four channels (instead of just stereo L/R) at different points across the soundboard, and each channel is replayed to a different speaker in a (roughly) corresponding position. I'm not aware of the CLPs (including the 695) doing anything like this.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935730 01/18/20 12:54 PM
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Pete14 Offline
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Odd that the NU1X (part of the AvantGrand family?) does not use multi-channel sampling, corresponding speaker setup and sound system, yet people love it and its old stinking stereo. smile

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: Pete14] #2935732 01/18/20 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Odd that the NU1X (part of the AvantGrand family?) does not use multi-channel sampling, corresponding speaker setup and speakers, yet people love it and its old stinking stereo. smile

My guess is that it doesn't make sense given the speaker profile. The NU1X is so narrow that all you can really output is stereo (unless you'd like to sample at the pedals wink )

The depth of instrument required by a grand action is what makes the multi-channel output possible/beneficial.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935744 01/18/20 01:14 PM
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Hear me out: what about an NU5X? and I’m not talking about the fifth generation NU1X, but something that would co-exist alongside the NU1X.

The ‘NU5X’ will be taller and deeper (similar to its acoustic sibling), it would accommodate a longer (keys) upright action and allow for some form of a multi-channel sound system.

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: Pete14] #2935748 01/18/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Hear me out: what about an NU5X? and I’m not talking about the fifth generation NU1X, but something that would co-exist alongside the NU1X.

The ‘NU5X’ will be taller and deeper (similar to its acoustic sibling), it would accommodate a longer (keys) upright action and allow for some form of a multi-channel sound system.


While i like the Idea from a consumer perspective what would bei the benefit for yamaha ?

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: Pete14] #2935765 01/18/20 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Hear me out: what about an NU5X? and I’m not talking about the fifth generation NU1X, but something that would co-exist alongside the NU1X.

The ‘NU5X’ will be taller and deeper (similar to its acoustic sibling), it would accommodate a longer (keys) upright action and allow for some form of a multi-channel sound system.


Taller? I'm against this as I'm a small person. If there is a upgrade, it also should be in the clavinovas, because they have just the right height.

Last edited by nicknameTaken; 01/18/20 02:16 PM.
Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: EricF] #2935767 01/18/20 02:20 PM
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Welcome to Piano World, Eric.
Originally Posted by EricF
Unfortunatly it doesent make much sense from a business perspective to bring any major improvements. There will be tiny improvements and fixes but nothing Major.
Interesting observation.
And I think you're right, based on past performance.

To quote former member "dewster" from seven years ago ...
Originally Posted by dewster
It's this same old, same old grind of intentionally inferior products that never ends in this stupid market.
Every NAMM is like a smack in the face.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2217153/re-yamaha-p105-teardown.html#Post2217153

Originally Posted by dewster
Buying an enthusiast level DP is like looking for gold in a cow pasture.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2217774/re-yamaha-p105-teardown.html#Post2217774

Sad. But true.

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: Gombessa] #2935773 01/18/20 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa


The depth of instrument required by a grand action is what makes the multi-channel output possible/beneficial.


I understood two speakers can convey depth of field effectively enough. Binaural stuff is supposed to do this isn't it? I've had vinyls which did this very well. And films too. Why doesn't the piano do the same? Binaural on my P515 is so good I switched it off . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935826 01/18/20 04:43 PM
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You can't really do it with two speakers. You have two EARS which represent two point targets for sound. So with two isolated sources (closed back headphones or earbuds) you can represent 3d positional audio--that is what binaural audio is. But it's the isolated part that is missing when you output to speakers.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935874 01/18/20 07:08 PM
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So why is it that two speakers is adequate for playing a recording of an acoustic piano?

Re: N1x vs. Clavinova in terms of sound [Re: dima5222] #2935877 01/18/20 07:27 PM
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I had a CLP-685 which has the same sound engine as the CLP-645. I traded it for an N1x. It appears that the N1X has re-recorded the CFX and Bosendorfer Imperial using "Spatial Acoustic Sampling".

To me, the Bosendorfer Imperial is the most significant improvement. The Imperial on the CLP-685 was thin and lacked bass, it really didn't do justice to the Imperial. On the N1X however, it's vastly improved, and in fact, on speakers, I prefer the Imperial to the CFX. It's got a very warm sound, where the CFX is quite bright comparatively. On headphones, the CFX with the binaural sampling is the only sound to consider, the rest sound distant and washed out comparatively. I personally think the binaural CFX over headphones is the same between the CLP-685 (and thus the 645) and the N1X, there's no difference to my ears.

Even though the speaker system is better on the CLP-685, I actually prefer the N1X because of the speaker placement. On the CLP-685 the sound seemed to come out of the front of the piano, and always gave the impression you were playing a recording like through a hi-fi, where on the N1X the sound comes from where you expect it to come from on a grand piano. I miss the big woofers that the CLP-685 had, but I'm not willing to fork over the dough for the N3X.

Also, the rest of the piano sounds on both pianos are, in my not so humble opinion, crap, and I never use them. The pipe organs, which the N1X has, I believe are the same sample as the CLP's and they sounded better on the CLP-685 because of the better speaker system, I could shake the walls with the low registers laugh

Last edited by Chrispy; 01/18/20 07:30 PM.

Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
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