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Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2934958 01/16/20 05:16 PM
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David Boyce Offline
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Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2934993 01/16/20 07:10 PM
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Bill McKaig,RPT Offline
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Now you know why we suggested not to unpin the parts! smile


Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2935043 01/16/20 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill McKaig,RPT
Now you know why we suggested not to unpin the parts! smile


You guys are the best, and give great advice! thumb

I was just thinking, if one had to rebush all the flanges on an acoustic piano action, that would be an enormous amount of work. I can see where the repinning process, using a slightly larger size pin and not redoing all the flange bushings, (unless necessary), would be the best approach to refurbishing an entire piano action.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2935072 01/16/20 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TurboMatt
Originally Posted by AWilley


Thanks for the link. I guess I need to figure out what size felt I need to properly repair the bushing.

Matt, I've rebushed per Anthony's video and it works as described. I also bought the bushing cloth from Howard. It's far more than I need, so if you want me to cut off a piece and mail it to you, just pm me.


Kawai MP11SE
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Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: Emery Wang] #2935226 01/17/20 09:30 AM
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TurboMatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Bill McKaig,RPT
Now you know why we suggested not to unpin the parts! smile


I absolutely see now! However, if I wouldn't have learned a thing if I never took the jump and tried to take on this massive job! Suffice to say, I don't play on unpinning any of the others ha!

Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Originally Posted by TurboMatt
Originally Posted by AWilley


Thanks for the link. I guess I need to figure out what size felt I need to properly repair the bushing.

Matt, I've rebushed per Anthony's video and it works as described. I also bought the bushing cloth from Howard. It's far more than I need, so if you want me to cut off a piece and mail it to you, just pm me.


Thanks for the offer! I was thinking about contacting one of the local piano shops (Piano Craft or Rick Jones) to see if they have any cloth they could sell. I'll report back if that does not work out.


1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2935231 01/17/20 09:44 AM
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P W Grey Offline
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Matt,

I hate to say "I told you so, but..."

Tools needed for this are:

Pin punch/inserter, reamers, burnishers, micrometer, various sizes of center pins, friction gauge, njshong cloth in various thicknesses, nippers, etc.

Many hours can be spent learning how to do this properly. Not a wise use of time when things are otherwise working acceptably.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2935232 01/17/20 09:48 AM
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P W Grey Offline
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Matt,

Take the parts over to Rick Jones and ask him to put it back together. I'm sure he will. Tell him I sent you.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: P W Grey] #2935250 01/17/20 10:20 AM
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TurboMatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Matt,

I hate to say "I told you so, but..."

Tools needed for this are:

Pin punch/inserter, reamers, burnishers, micrometer, various sizes of center pins, friction gauge, njshong cloth in various thicknesses, nippers, etc.

Many hours can be spent learning how to do this properly. Not a wise use of time when things are otherwise working acceptably.

Pwg

Originally Posted by P W Grey
Matt,

Take the parts over to Rick Jones and ask him to put it back together. I'm sure he will. Tell him I sent you.

Pwg


I know I know. Lesson learned...darn it. I actually just spoke to the folks at Piano Craft. The quote he gave me to rebush and size it up was next to nothing (around $20). So, I will be meeting with them this weekend to have it fixed then continue on with the reconditioning. Rick Jones is about 1.5 hours from me and Piano Craft is around 40 mins so I figured I would try them first.

Since it's not worth it to spend the money on tooling for this one part. I'll leave this crucial step to the pros!

Last edited by TurboMatt; 01/17/20 10:21 AM.

1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2938530 01/25/20 05:23 PM
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In an attempt to make some DIY lubricant for the area under the repetition lever, I came up with this very "scientific" method....ha. I was going to just mix them up but figured it may be of help to other folks if they end up in a similar situation. I'll post another video after things dry and I do a 2nd coat. As always, let me know if anyone has any pointers or tips to improve things.



1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2940184 01/29/20 10:43 AM
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P W Grey Offline
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Seems to me that DAG 154 already does this.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: P W Grey] #2940201 01/29/20 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Seems to me that DAG 154 already does this.

Pwg


You are correct. However, I can't seem to find anywhere to purchase Bonderite products. At least from a consumer standpoint. I'll make another video tonight to illustrate my findings. Suffice to say, the CRC and 2:1 (alcohol to graphite) seem to work very well for this purpose. I'll probably go with the CRC as it appears to have penetrated a bit better into the wood grain.


1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2940204 01/29/20 11:13 AM
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.mypianoshop.com/store/Acheson-Dag-154-Graphite-Lubricant-USA-ONLY.html&ved=2ahUKEwigm_OpmannAhXPqlkKHag5DiMQFjAJegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0sO2fgPyqalqw28CXca6PK&cshid=1580314333284


Oops, I don't know how to make it's a live link

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 01/29/20 11:14 AM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2940207 01/29/20 11:24 AM
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Copy and paste works just fine, so thanks. Now, I have to wonder how much better this stuff is than the CRC. I'll order it and apply it to the same piece of test wood as a comparison.


1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2940260 01/29/20 01:04 PM
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P W Grey Offline
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This is basically the stuff that was used for many decades before Emralon came along.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: P W Grey] #2940281 01/29/20 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
This is basically the stuff that was used for many decades before Emralon came along.

Pwg


In that case, I would say it's probably best to skip my science project and just use the DAG 154.

As always, thank you.


1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2951540 02/25/20 06:51 PM
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Good evening all. I'm updating the thread because I need some further assistance. I will attempt to illustrate my question here as well as in the video.

So, the project has been moving along (slowly) and I become happier and happier with the outcome. However, I've run into an issue that I've read about more than a few times. With descriptions such as "This will depend on musician thoughts, depends on this or that, etc". So my question is ultimately regarding key dip, or will involve a decision to be made with it's adjustment.

After addressing all of the whippens, which were all removed, I re-assembled the entire action. The first step of the regulation was done by properly setting the hammer blow distance. This was set per Yamaha spec at 46mm on the dot. After that was set, I set let-off to be 2mm. The next item I began to regulate was key dip. I set 4 keys (F3, G3, A3, B3) to 10mm key dip as a test group to work from. After this was set, I noticed that after touch was basically lost. I stopped there and thought about things. If I set the entire piano to 10mm key dip, I will need to go back and reduce blow distance...correct? Ultimately loosing some power from the shorter blow distance?

On the keys that have not had key dip adjusted (it's around 10.5-10.7mm), after touch seems to be ok. So, do I chase exactly 10mm key dip with shorter blow distance, or keep things how they are with proper blow distance and adjust key dip to suite?

Please take a look at the video and let me know your thoughts.



Thank you!!


1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2951545 02/25/20 06:59 PM
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Hi Matt. I ran into the same issue on my piano. Opinions differ, but I went with the idea that increased key dip compromises the touch more, as key has farther to travel. Therefore I maintained a 10mm dip and decreased the blow distance so the keys would regulate.

Last edited by Emery Wang; 02/25/20 07:00 PM.

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Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: Emery Wang] #2951567 02/25/20 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Hi Matt. I ran into the same issue on my piano. Opinions differ, but I went with the idea that increased key dip compromises the touch more, as key has farther to travel. Therefore I maintained a 10mm dip and decreased the blow distance so the keys would regulate.


My thinking would lead me in the opposite direction. I of course could be completely wrong, however, I would think more key travel ultimately would result in more 'resolution'. That is of course if the key dip is within an acceptable range. With that said, I am absolutely fine reducing blow distance to end up with a proper regulation. Just not sure what to do.


1980 Yamaha G5 Grand Piano
1924 Chickering Baby Grand
Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2951579 02/25/20 08:51 PM
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Both of the techs that have worked on my piano recommend not increasing dip above 10 mm. I think a search thru PW archives yields both opinions on the topic. My goal has always been to lighten the action and make repetition as fast as possible. Therefore shorter hammer and key travel would seem to achieve that more than the opposite. But, I suspect the difference is minor. The important thing is that the action properly regulates. Here's a good explanation of this by Nick Gravagne:


Seems either way works.

Last edited by Emery Wang; 02/25/20 08:51 PM.

Kawai MP11SE
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Re: DIY Grand Piano Action recondition and regulation [Re: TurboMatt] #2951595 02/25/20 09:52 PM
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Well Matt...

Have you aligned the jacks to the knuckle cores AND adjusted the rep levers for proper interface with the knuckles? Along with this comes an initial regulation of the rep springs (they must be in the ballpark).

Gotta have the above before anything else has a chance to work. 😨

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
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