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Stress is unhealthy no matter what way you cut it.
No no no. Stess is not unhealthy, it is a natural response present in all living beings. Stress is fine, as long as you recover. Prolonged stress / chronic stress without adequate recovery is very unhealthy.
Stress is normal just like McDonald burgers. The effects are cumulative as is the damage done to the body. There is enough stress in life without actively creating more. Eat all of the burgers you want and fabricate all of the stress you enjoy want but please don't encourage it. The life expectancy in the U.S. is the worst of all developed nations and is declining despite spending far more per capita on medical treatments than any other nation. We really don't need any more self-induced or manufactured health lifestyle problems. After all, healthy people such as my self end up paying for all those chronic diseases caused by "enjoyable foods and stress".
Asian health guidance recommends reducing stress (as does any medical system) not accepting it. It it's a very unhealthy lifestyle choice.
I contend that we have more health problems in the US from lack of stress than we do from stress. People are obese because they're sedentary and do not exercise. Exercise is a stressor on the body. What happens when the body is stressed through exercise, whether it is running or lifting weights. The body grows stronger. It adapts to the stress it is put under.
Think about the evolution of human beings. Yes, we evolved, we have scientific evidence. Evolution required human beings to deal with stress all the time. We had to learn to hunt, run from attacking animals or other tribes, defend ourselves, build homes, defend our homes, on and on and on. All of those things are stressors.
I'm a vegetarian. I run almost every day. Those behaviors are probably a large part of why I am still the same weight I was in high school, and others, who consume cheap plentiful calories, are gaining, on average, ten pounds per each decade of their life. Telling this later group to not stress themselves at exercise is in no way going to help them become healthier.
Stress is unhealthy no matter what way you cut it.
No no no. Stess is not unhealthy, it is a natural response present in all living beings. Stress is fine, as long as you recover. Prolonged stress / chronic stress without adequate recovery is very unhealthy.
Agreed. Stress is a normal part of life. I believe they have found that if a person reacts to stress by changing their behavior in a way that allows them to control the situation, it turns out that stress is a way of achieving personal growth.
All human beings deal with stress, at work, in school, in personal relationships, etc. We evolve ways of dealing with that stress. Nobody sits at home in a stress-free state, there is no change in that situation, and therefore no possibility of growth.
Of course, there is stress when playing music in front of others. So, we can deal with that stress by putting ourselves in that situation more often. We can play for our family members. We can play with others. I play in a classical guitar trio and I have found that that is a good way of getting used to playing in front of others. At the end of my last piano lesson, my teacher had me play for the next student. I did ok, I made it through the piece. During the next lesson, my teacher remarked that she was proud of how I was able to do that, that she thought I might fall apart. Some people do fall apart but, hopefully, they can adapt and get to a point where they do not fall apart.
There is zero reason to be stressed while playing piano or enjoying any art hobby. It is a lifestyle choice by you and your teacher. Entirely manufactured by self created stresses as you described.
Oh, please, human beings have played music for each other for as long as they have gathered in groups. Playing the piano is a performing art. Yes, you can play sounds through your headphones all the time and never play a note for anyone else, but what is the fun or challenge in that?
All musical performances are manufactured, after all, people book halls, sell tickets, and then show up on the date and time to play in front of others. The horror! Playing one piece for the next student was as natural as it gets. We're not atoms, we're people bund together by place, time, culture, and a love of music. Surprisingly, even though I am a beginner, I served as a example for someone who is even more of a beginner than I am. Imagine that! Someone else was amazed at my progress. It's enough to encourage one to keep practicing. Oh, yeah, I gotta go practice.
I contend that we have more health problems in the US from lack of stress than we do from stress. People are obese because they're sedentary and do not exercise. Exercise is a stressor on the body. What happens when the body is stressed through exercise, whether it is running or lifting weights. The body grows stronger. It adapts to the stress it is put under.
Think about the evolution of human beings. Yes, we evolved, we have scientific evidence. Evolution required human beings to deal with stress all the time. We had to learn to hunt, run from attacking animals or other tribes, defend ourselves, build homes, defend our homes, on and on and on. All of those things are stressors.
I'm a vegetarian. I run almost every day. Those behaviors are probably a large part of why I am still the same weight I was in high school, and others, who consume cheap plentiful calories, are gaining, on average, ten pounds per each decade of their life. Telling this later group to not stress themselves at exercise is in no way going to help them become healthier.
I'm quite certain that you are creating stress in everything you do. There problem is you are recommending this to others. The first person to run the marathon, who was doubtlessly in great shape, died. I recommended moderation (nice leisurely walks) together smiles and laughter as a healthier alternative to your lifestyle choices. Even modern Western medicine recommends moderation nowadays (it took them some time to get there). There is no such thing as healthy stress. There is stress that we have to learn to deal with. Self manufactured stress is a lifestyle choice just like eating at McDonald's.
People can play for each other all they want. I play for my wife. I play when I enjoy it and I don't play when it is stressful since there is no reason I should choose to do unhealthy things.
I contend that we have more health problems in the US from lack of stress than we do from stress. People are obese because they're sedentary and do not exercise. Exercise is a stressor on the body. What happens when the body is stressed through exercise, whether it is running or lifting weights. The body grows stronger. It adapts to the stress it is put under.
Think about the evolution of human beings. Yes, we evolved, we have scientific evidence. Evolution required human beings to deal with stress all the time. We had to learn to hunt, run from attacking animals or other tribes, defend ourselves, build homes, defend our homes, on and on and on. All of those things are stressors.
I'm a vegetarian. I run almost every day. Those behaviors are probably a large part of why I am still the same weight I was in high school, and others, who consume cheap plentiful calories, are gaining, on average, ten pounds per each decade of their life. Telling this later group to not stress themselves at exercise is in no way going to help them become healthier.
I'm quite certain that you are creating stress in everything you do. There problem is you are recommending this to others. The first person to run the marathon, who was doubtlessly in great shape, died. I recommended moderation (nice leisurely walks) together smiles and laughter as a healthier alternative to your lifestyle choices. Even modern Western medicine recommends moderation nowadays (it took them some time to get there). There is no such thing as healthy stress. There is stress that we have to learn to deal with. Self manufactured stress is a lifestyle choice just like eating at McDonald's.
People can play for each other all they want. I play for my wife. I play when I enjoy it and I don't play when it is stressful since there is no reason I should choose to do unhealthy things.
The first guy who ran a marathon was wearing a full suit of armor. I never recommended that as a way to exercise! I don't even recommend marathons and I've never run one. If you want to improve your fitness, run 5k races. You'll recover from them quickly and your body will adapt, and you will become healthier.
People who run embark on a program of careful training, where they stress their bodies and then let them recover. I knew 50 year old men who had the cardiovascular health of 30 year olds. They didn't get that fit by walking. While walking is ok, it does not raise your heart rate by much at all, and so it does not help much in remaining healthy. Besides, you have to literally walk for hours and hours, every day, which is what our ancestors did. Smiles and laughter are great things but they don't help with physical fitness. Sorry to have to break it to you.
I'm not saying you have to be compelled to play the piano. It is nice that you have an audience of one, at least. I have the same. Oh, yeah, there are the neighbors downstairs, lol.
"Using this data, the researchers stratified the adults by their weekly exercise time, from those who did not exercise at all to those who worked out for 10 times the current recommendations or more (meaning that they exercised moderately for 25 hours per week or more).
Then they compared 14 years’ worth of death records for the group.
They found that, unsurprisingly, the people who did not exercise at all were at the highest risk of early death.
But those who exercised a little, not meeting the recommendations but doing something, lowered their risk of premature death by 20 percent.
Those who met the guidelines precisely, completing 150 minutes per week of moderate exercise, enjoyed greater longevity benefits and 31 percent less risk of dying during the 14-year period compared with those who never exercised.
The sweet spot for exercise benefits, however, came among those who tripled the recommended level of exercise, working out moderately, mostly by walking, for 450 minutes per week, or a little more than an hour per day. Those people were 39 percent less likely to die prematurely than people who never exercised."
"Using this data, the researchers stratified the adults by their weekly exercise time, from those who did not exercise at all to those who worked out for 10 times the current recommendations or more (meaning that they exercised moderately for 25 hours per week or more).
Then they compared 14 years’ worth of death records for the group.
They found that, unsurprisingly, the people who did not exercise at all were at the highest risk of early death.
But those who exercised a little, not meeting the recommendations but doing something, lowered their risk of premature death by 20 percent.
Those who met the guidelines precisely, completing 150 minutes per week of moderate exercise, enjoyed greater longevity benefits and 31 percent less risk of dying during the 14-year period compared with those who never exercised.
The sweet spot for exercise benefits, however, came among those who tripled the recommended level of exercise, working out moderately, mostly by walking, for 450 minutes per week, or a little more than an hour per day. Those people were 39 percent less likely to die prematurely than people who never exercised."
Yeah, that’s basically what I said. You need to walk for hours and hours. That’s over 7 hours of walking a week! Given the prevalence of the car culture throughout the world, relatively few people walk anywhere close to 7 hours a week. New Yorkers probably get closer than most because they tend not to own cars and therefore walk more.
If you’re not going to walk 7 hours a week, then you’d be better off running easy 30 minutes a day. Not moving is the worst choice of all.
British Rail conducted one of the first studies with regards to longevity and walking. They discovered that their conductors lived longer than their managers. The conductors walked up and down the trains all day long while the managers sat at desks. So, if you got promoted, they stole years from your lifespan.
The word "stress", like a few others, is too abstract, and can have several meanings according to who is reading the word. So let's get rid of the word for a moment. Same with "relaxation" btw. In complete relaxation you'd be a crumbled heap at the foot of the piano.
When I am learning at the piano, and in fact, anything, I want to strive toward things I cannot yet do. There is an energy that arises in our being that wants to spend itself and go toward something, and the activity itself creates that energy. It is enjoyable. It does not create anxiety. Babies in institutions where they receive food, are cleaned, given a bed, but there is no stimulus, do not thrive. They rock themselves in desperate attempts at stimulation.
I had several years of lessons where the teacher did not want to distress me, and so kept everything within a realm of what I could already do, how I already functioned in music. After a while I went dead inside. When I did get hints of what else existed, and strived toward these things, I became alive, like a spark had been lit. Still I was "spared" these things, which are "initially hard and challenging" ---- and indeed, they are. And I liked that!!! Eventually we touched base.
If I start a course, and am told it will be "fun" and "easy" - my alarm bells are ringing loud; that causes (the unpleasant kind of) stress, and I become very cautious. I'm already looking for an exit door, in case I need to take it. Maybe the thing we want to stay away from is DIStress.
The word "stress", like a few others, is too abstract, and can have several meanings according to who is reading the word. So let's get rid of the word for a moment. Same with "relaxation" btw. In complete relaxation you'd be a crumbled heap at the foot of the piano.
When I am learning at the piano, and in fact, anything, I want to strive toward things I cannot yet do. There is an energy that arises in our being that wants to spend itself and go toward something, and the activity itself creates that energy. It is enjoyable. It does not create anxiety. Babies in institutions where they receive food, are cleaned, given a bed, but there is no stimulus, do not thrive. They rock themselves in desperate attempts at stimulation.
I had several years of lessons where the teacher did not want to distress me, and so kept everything within a realm of what I could already do, how I already functioned in music. After a while I went dead inside. When I did get hints of what else existed, and strived toward these things, I became alive, like a spark had been lit. Still I was "spared" these things, which are "initially hard and challenging" ---- and indeed, they are. And I liked that!!! Eventually we touched base.
If I start a course, and am told it will be "fun" and "easy" - my alarm bells are ringing loud; that causes (the unpleasant kind of) stress, and I become very cautious. I'm already looking for an exit door, in case I need to take it. Maybe the thing we want to stay away from is DIStress.
I recommend that individuals learn to enjoy "fun and easy going" without any alarms going off. The alarms your talking about are just unhealthy habits formed in schools and nurtured by your own lifestyle choices. In life, one can learn healthy habits to replace unhealthy ones.
I recommend that individuals learn to enjoy "fun and easy going" without any alarms going off. The alarms your talking about are just unhealthy habits formed in schools and nurtured by your own lifestyle choices. In life, one can learn healthy habits to replace unhealthy ones.
Absolutely not!! You know nothing about my schooling or school experience. In fact, school was just as 'fun and easy going'. I do not want more of the same. Do not put words in my mouth, or extrapolate attitudes. I have not done that to you. I have not tried to interpret you. Don't do so with me. Thank you.
My habits are extremely healthy. If yours are too, congratulations.
I'll say what bothers me immensely about the "response" I got. My values are important to me. When I share what matters to me, I don't appreciate being analyzed as if there is something wrong with me, my world, or my attitudes. It was also hard to find teaching that matched my values, or even express what they are. To have that shrugged off and denigrated as something bad is beyond the pale. This is the kind of thing that silences people.
Some people like myself think of music as fun & engaging. Coming from a non-musical family where nobody plays music in front of anybody and you feel embarrassed playing because you don't play well with wrong notes all over. In my family only 1 person shares the same passion for music. We should be playing duets together but the other person isn't comfortable performing in front of people.
In my high school days I had a good strings teacher. We had 4 instruments (violin, viola, cello & bass) in 1 class. The teacher found arrangements of modern pieces for us to play including arrangements of Beatles songs, TV themes, an arrangement of Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals. Besides Classical music that we're supposed to be playing including pieces by Bach, Beethoven & Mozart, the repertoire was never boring. A lot of people quit playing music probably because the parents got them a private teacher or enrolled them into a music program as a child and they only played Classical pieces.
Music is a personal thing. Some people get frustrated they can't do anything right. Others have a different attitude that every mistake is a chance to learn something. Like every time you worked something out, you feel an "Eureka" moment.
I don't normally like to put all the blame on a music teacher for not doing a good job when a student doesn't practice regularly. Robert Estrin recently posted a video that you may have the wrong piano teacher:
I'll say what bothers me immensely about the "response" I got. My values are important to me. When I share what matters to me, I don't appreciate being analyzed as if there is something wrong with me, my world, or my attitudes. It was also hard to find teaching that matched my values, or even express what they are. To have that shrugged off and denigrated as something bad is beyond the pale. This is the kind of thing that silences people.
I was merely suggesting that others learn and adopt different stress reducing lifestyle choices as recommended by ancient and modern health practices. I don't think I have yet found any sources, other than this forum, recommending stress and tension (enjoyable or otherwise) as a healthy lifestyle choice. That you and others require and enjoy stress in you piano practice are your choices.
That you and others require and enjoy stress in you piano practice are your choices.
I have not said anywhere that I enjoy stress. Secondly, my post begins with the fact that the word "stress" can carry different meanings for people, and chose to dispense of the word.
That you and others require and enjoy stress in you piano practice are your choices.
I have not said anywhere that I enjoy stress. Secondly, my post begins with the fact that the word "stress" can carry different meanings for people, and chose to dispense of the word.
I am recommending reduction of stress as a healthy lifestyle choice, since that is the topic at hand, and enjoyment and fun as a healthy lifestyle choice. As it turns out, complete relaxation is Carlos Arrau's recommendation in in the video I have previously posted. If one does this, what one discovers is a body filled with spiritual energy that is quite a delight when playing music or practicing any art. I first discovered this energy while practicing Tai, but it is prevalent in all artistic and sports pursuits as artists and athletes frequently describe the same feeling of energetic total relaxation.
The thread has moved on since my last post about struggling at lessons, but since a few people took the time to answer, I still would like to thank them and address a few comments.
First of all I should really apologize tor venting on the internet in a public forum. I was frustrated and I could not help it.
I do not want to turn this thread into a teacher vs self-teaching, but for me a teacher is definitely the way to go. I like the guidance, the structure, the fact that it makes me accountable, the feedback, the fact that somebody I trust selects the pieces that are appropriate for me. I do not see myself without a teacher for the foreseeable future.
As regards stress, Bennevis has expressed it very well. It is "challenging stress", delayed gratification. Lessons are just like a medicine, it might taste bad, but it is still beneficial.
In general any goal the it is worth pursuing has a component of sweat and pain. If it was easy to achieve it would not be that interesting. Climbing a mountain or reaching the top via helicopter is not the same thing. You still can enjoy the view, but the sense of accomplishment is different. For learning the piano there is no shortcut it takes the sweat and pain that it takes. Occasionally I get to enjoy the sense of accomplishment and other times I feel down because of the frustration.
See, I think most of us that pursue hobbies lose sight of them from time to time. I think we can confuse their role in our lives. I think that we change all the time but so slowly that we’re usually oblivious to it, and that we often first notice that change in our own activities.
Being stressed or worried by the piano or by practice is not uncommon in my opinion. This is true even if you are not a trained musician or a professional. A quick stroll through the posts here will show you that people are made anxious by all facets of this discipline, whether it’s performing for others, recording one’s self or just one’s own progress across time.
Music is and has always been very competitive and the piano is among the most revered and respected musical roles, and therefore among the most competitive itself. Humans are inherently competitive animals so it is no wonder such things might rub off on us and affect how we feel about this activity. You chose the right course: adjust from within, look broader and deeper. Don’t just accept that stress for what it is. Piano playing can and should be enjoyable for most of us who don’t make a living off of it. We can enjoy its healing and meditative qualities without needing it to also pay the rent.
That’s not to say we can’t also improve: placing one’s body and mind in stressful situations to learn something new is healthy and normal, provided that you can laugh at yourself throughout. It’s only piano, what’s the worst that could happen, after all? It doesn’t have to be that serious or that consuming. So yes, in my own way, from my own perspective, I can relate to your experience. I think most people can. It’s one more thing to help us grow.
The thread has moved on since my last post about struggling at lessons, but since a few people took the time to answer, I still would like to thank them and address a few comments.
In general any goal the it is worth pursuing has a component of sweat and pain. If it was easy to achieve it would not be that interesting. Climbing a mountain or reaching the top via helicopter is not the same thing. You still can enjoy the view, but the sense of accomplishment is different. For learning the piano there is no shortcut it takes the sweat and pain that it takes. Occasionally I get to enjoy the sense of accomplishment and other times I feel down because of the frustration.
Thanks, Luca
I have done several difficult expeditions to climb high peaks, and when i climb I am totally relaxed from a mental point of view. Being stuck on a vertical face and focusing strictly on the proper moves to go up just relax me completely from all mental stress. Yes i enjoy the view when i get there but in fact I enjoy also mostly the climb itself, the environment and the physical exercice. If the only interest was the view, i would probably take the helicopter (assuming i can afford it).
Some comments are talking about stress on the body but this type of physical exercice is unrelated to the nervous/anxiety type stress, which is counterproductive past certain level.
I really do not see why you would need to suffer during the lessons. I think enjoyable lessons and interaction with your teacher, free from frustration (most of the time) is way more productive, at least in my experience.
I really do not see why you would need to suffer during the lessons. I think enjoyable lessons and interaction with your teacher, free from frustration (most of the time) is way more productive, at least in my experience.
Of course it is way more productive, and way, way more healthy.
Inducing stress in oneself for whatever manufactured reason is just habit created by an educational system that rewards quantity over quality. Quantity may be important for economic reasons (workers historically have to produce) but when it comes to the arts it is all about the quality. Creating quantity uses quite a bit of energy and induces stress. Quality requires creative energy and no stress. Most of the advice given on this forum is just an artifact of the quantity approach to education. Art is a spiritual activity not an economic activity.
I get to a point in a piece sometimes that even tho I play thru correctly, I still get nervous when I come to it. I guess it was a trouble spot when I was learning and I can’t shake the jitters of it leading to mistakes that shouldn’t happen I’m sure.
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