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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934780 01/16/20 11:56 AM
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dihelson Offline
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It's my third post here and I can't see it published


I don´t want to learn how to play a music. I´m developing a way to play them all.
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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: dihelson] #2934783 01/16/20 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dihelson

It's my third post here and I can't see it published


I can see them all...

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: sleutelbos] #2934789 01/16/20 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by sleutelbos
Originally Posted by dihelson

It's my third post here and I can't see it published


I can see them all...


Thanks for the feedback, Sleutelbos. Why Kawaii don't launch
Some "grandpianos" based on these new models ? Why only upright ?


I don´t want to learn how to play a music. I´m developing a way to play them all.
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: lovelovemale] #2934797 01/16/20 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
I also don't understand why you see the screws on the left holding the key cover on the CA 99. For this price tag, which will be similar to the 99 those screws should not be visible :-O

Exactly the detail I meant when I said it looks cheap. It’s probably there to make the keylid more robust, but for that price tag a top of the line model should never look like that in my opinion. Surely there must be a way to hide them or design a more appealing solution. The white version especially has a black plate and screws... I don’t know, the upright design is just not pretty, while I like the CA79 a lot.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: lovelovemale] #2934813 01/16/20 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
Also wonder if a UI update would be available on the CA 78 / 98 ?
I mean it would be really possible but I guess the new UI is also one of the selling points of the new 79 and 99.

It's as "possible" as a "tone update" is possible for the previous models. If you want that, that's what the VSTi route is for.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Maartin] #2934823 01/16/20 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Maartin
Any details on pricing yet? Wouldn't mind trading in my CA97. Wonder how much they'd give me for it?


after

Originally Posted by Maartin


This second link has a price in UK Pounds

I was in Bonners today talking to the David in Reigate (I bought a Grand Piano). He said they had it on the web site ready to go at Midnight. Tony (the guy who does most of the videos) is in NAMM and David (the guy on a lot of the acoustic videos) expected to see a video from him shortly.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934827 01/16/20 12:55 PM
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Prices are still RRP for now. Gear4music is listing them in pre order at 2600 and 3400 GBP for CA79 and CA99.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934839 01/16/20 01:12 PM
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Seems like the USER voicing for volume and keys in the virtual technician is not available in the new models anymore.
Here is a side by side comparison from the kawai global page:

Kawai CA98 vs CA99 comparison chart


Last edited by lovelovemale; 01/16/20 01:13 PM.
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934845 01/16/20 01:20 PM
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The progression from my CA63 CA95 CA67 to the CAx9 Series. The new GF III seems to have addressed so many items. Whether it is the sample picture primping or maybe, the keys are all uniform across all 88, the PFE tape that was so problematic is gone and so many other small refinements, one wonders where this can go for the GF IV version.

Still enjoy my CA67. Will be some time before I need more. Altho, the soundboard and tactile feedback thru the keys, I kinda miss.


Jon ...

Kawai CA67
A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934851 01/16/20 01:23 PM
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Has there been any mention of a CA48 upgrade or similar priced piano announced? As I'm about to purchase one and wouldn't want to get it if there's a new one coming shortly.

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: magicpiano] #2934853 01/16/20 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Is it only me who thinks the resonance modeling is too much like a reverb rather than real sympathetic resonance? I noticed that on the CA78 I tested. For the very first time I thought the reverb was too high and switched it off but it turned out it was damper resonance that sounded just like a reverb. I have forgotten about that, but listening now to the CA99 demos through good headphones and on the slower piano pieces, I notice there's something like too much reverb but at the end of phrases it's cut off which makes me think it's again that resonance modeling. Have you noticed something like that?
IMHO, all digital pianos use a type of reverb to emulate damper resonances. I think it's just a convolution reverb with an impulse response sampled from the vibration of all the strings inside an acoustic piano. To "simulate", instead of "emulate" the effect, you should make all the virtual strings resonate (with certain parameters different from a normal note playing) every time you play a single note with the sustain pedal depressed. That would require a computational power that I don't think our current DPs have, because it would be like playing 88 notes each time you play a single note.
I think even Pianoteq uses convolution reverb to simulate most of the resonances. Probably, the only resonance that doesn't use convolution is the sympathetic resonance, because it's implemented by playing another note (you notice it, because for each sympathetic note played, the polyphony counter decreases). If damper resonance implementation worked like the sympathetic resonance implementation, you should see the polyphony counter decrease of 88 for each single note played with sustain pedal depressed... The max polyphony would be reached after playing a single chord!

Well, I’m not sure I agree (or disagree). Many years ago digital pianos either used damper down samples or a reverbey effect, as you say. For instance my RD-700SX had a very unconvincing reverb-type of damper pedal resonance. However the modeled resonances in Pianoteq are extremely realistic and it’s the only thing that I really like in it. Similarly, the modeled resonances in the latest Yamaha are comparable and don’t sound like reverb at all. I don’t have a lot of experience with the Kawai modeled resonances to be 100% certain they are lacking and not that realistic which is why I’m asking but my limited impression is that they are rather close to those reverby type of effects from the past than a realistic piano resonances. But maybe it’s a matter of settings?

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/16/20 01:27 PM.

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Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934870 01/16/20 02:05 PM
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I don't have a Yamaha DP to compare to, but I think that a convolution filter with a long impulse response can work miracles. The length of the impulse response greatly affects the quality of the effect (but greater length for the impulse response means that the convolution requires more computational power for real-time sound rendering).

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934871 01/16/20 02:06 PM
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It also looks like the internal recorder on the new models records MIDI data for the SK-EX renderer, removing some of the limitations of the recorder in previous models' Pianist mode. I suspect this also means notes triggered via MIDI input will have resonance modeled for them (unlike the previous Pianist mode).

Last edited by Zack C; 01/16/20 02:07 PM.

Novus NV10
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: lovelovemale] #2934872 01/16/20 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lovelovemale
Seems like the USER voicing for volume and keys in the virtual technician is not available in the new models anymore.
Here is a side by side comparison from the kawai global page:

Kawai CA98 vs CA99 comparison chart



Curiously enough they also mention they improved the 'consistency' of the action; wonder if these are related...

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934964 01/16/20 05:38 PM
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Quote
Kawai’s redesigned communication standard allows this new user interface to also be accessed as an app for iOS and supported Android devices, with all settings and adjustments recalled automatically every time the instrument is powered on.


It's amazing and wonderful how this update seems to directly address so many pain points brought up on PW...

Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934983 01/16/20 06:35 PM
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1. Are there any images/videos of the new UI? I also wonder if it would be possible to flash the new UI onto existing hardware (or swap the hardware out). It sounds like the "redesigned communication standard" may make this a no-go though. I'd pay for some faster hardware (the current touchscreen is a bit laggy).

2. Can we see and edit the contents of Favorites now? Fingers crossed smile

3. GF3's change from capstan/sliptape to plastic cap is a welcome (and expected change). Making the keybed less "mushy" is also a great change, I can't wait to give it a try.

4. One thing I felt is missing - no USB audio interface. That would be a great for minimizing cables and reducing noise/ground loops for audio-in.

5. Another I was hoping for - native multichannel output, though if/when it does happen, perhaps it will be exclusively for the Novus line...


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Gombessa] #2934987 01/16/20 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Another I was hoping for - native multichannel output, though if/when it does happen, perhaps it will be exclusively for the Novus line...


You mean the six channels in the piano sound? Out of curiosity, would you want that for experimental sound design (I can see many uses there!) or more conventional piano recordings (I am too stupid to understand the advantage)?

Last edited by sleutelbos; 01/16/20 06:45 PM.
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2934990 01/16/20 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Are there any images/videos of the new UI?

There are screenshots in the manual.


Novus NV10
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: sleutelbos] #2934992 01/16/20 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sleutelbos
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Another I was hoping for - native multichannel output, though if/when it does happen, perhaps it will be exclusively for the Novus line...


You mean the six channels in the piano sound? Out of curiosity, would you want that for experimental sound design (I can see many uses there!) or more conventional piano recordings (I am too stupid to understand the advantage)?


It would be for added realism during playing. I don't know how many channels there are, but "multi-channel" suggests it's more than stereo smile

Yamaha has 4-channel sampling for its AvantGrand pianos, and each speaker plays back samples taken from the mic for its respective channel. On its current DPs, Kawai mixes down the multi-channel samples and outputs these to stereo speakers. I assume it would be an upgrade to have native multi-channel output to speakers positioned to take advantage of it.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai announces Concert Artist CA99 and CA79 digital pianos [Re: Zack C] #2934995 01/16/20 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Zack C
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Are there any images/videos of the new UI?

There are screenshots in the manual.


The different UX just seems to be a sideways move from the previous version (not an obvious improvement), but the new features are kind of cool, such as the VT presets.

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