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Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? #2933408 01/13/20 04:51 PM
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Trev-M Offline OP
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Does this have another name on a piano, as it is really a totally different technique (nothing to do with hammers) but produces a similar sounding result on the piano?

I heard it on a 1967 recording by an obscure scandinavian player, but the way he uses it is really quite brilliant and I wonder if there are any other examples you might know. I'm resisting posting the recording as it's very poor quality, and the technique only occurs in a few places so let me describe it. Playing in slightly jazzy freestyle, the player hits say a D major chord with the right hand at the end of a bar, and on the following beat 1, with only the bassist/percussionist accompanying and no pedal, sharply and precisely lifts of the bottom 2 fingers, which gives the effect of "bending" the apparent pitch of the sound by leaving only the A ringing on, without any fresh attack. I experimented a bit with this myself, and find it only really works well in the upper-middle register of the keyboard, where the strings still have dampers and some power to them. The initial chord needs to be struck with extra weight in the note that is going to be left to ring-on too.

Any background appreciated.


Monington & Weston 1930's baby grand, an old Roland and a portable Yamaha
http://wavesculptor.net/piano-world/Trev_n_lady_Monington.jpg
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Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Trev-M] #2933500 01/13/20 09:15 PM
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That piano technique you described sounds nothing like a guitar hammer-on, in fact it sounds more like a guitar "pull-off".

Guitar hammer-on is where you play a note then simply use the left hand to sound the next note without re-fingering or picking it, giving a legato effect.

Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Trev-M] #2933583 01/14/20 06:23 AM
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I compared it to a hammer-on because in the case I was studying, the perceived pitch was going up without another note being struck/picked. I agreed, production-wise "it is really a totally different technique ". Your pull-off results in the pitch going down without a percussive/plucking sound. Either way, I'm still looking for any input on this kind of technique on the piano.


Monington & Weston 1930's baby grand, an old Roland and a portable Yamaha
http://wavesculptor.net/piano-world/Trev_n_lady_Monington.jpg
Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Trev-M] #2933590 01/14/20 07:19 AM
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Hard to say what he's doing as long as the recording can't be heard...give us a hint or post the sounds..!

Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Trev-M] #2934768 01/16/20 11:30 AM
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Trev, I know the sound you mean. I sometimes do a similar trick by playing for example G and A simultaneously and quickly lifting the G. It's more effective if you can make the lower note sound a bit stronger. It also works with half steps.

Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Trev-M] #2934815 01/16/20 12:37 PM
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Ken, good to hear from someone else who gets the technique. Part of the trick is, I think the listener's ear has to be waiting for a note at the point in the rhythm that is only there by the abrupt damping of the other notes. The ear then recognises it in it's own right, even though it has no attack and has already faded, which actually thereby makes it interesting. I noticed it works well with close notes as you mention - gives a 7th/2nd/semitone edge without drowning the ear or melody in it. I also found it works with block chords with a doubled bass note and lift the bass OFF on the beat.

The guy whose playing drew my attention to the technique in a groinky old tape recording that has slipped-tune (if the piano was in tune in the first place!) was Kazimierz Ożga, 1967, Vide Med Vind, on Youtube. A couple of times at 1:57-1:58 in, and other places if you listen carefully. But the whole backing track is populated by interesting (but probably dated) riffs and voicings that (to my ear) are infinitely more interesting than the song itself.


Monington & Weston 1930's baby grand, an old Roland and a portable Yamaha
http://wavesculptor.net/piano-world/Trev_n_lady_Monington.jpg
Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Trev-M] #2935201 01/17/20 08:31 AM
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I'm thinking - is Theloniuos Monk quite a good guy to listen to for this kind of technique? To my ear he uses it a fair bit.

Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Zaphod] #2935301 01/17/20 11:41 AM
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Zaphod - that is what I wanted to get from someone here.

Monk did a tour including Norway - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o59Nsw7wxU - the year before that piece I mentioned above was recorded in Norway. Not heard the technique in question yet in Monk's playing, but I'm certainly inspired. Lot of listening to do. Need to find more stuff in which the piano rather than the sax is featured. How can he get away with those wacky "chords"? Guess when one gets ones ear in enough to know he meant it rather than ... it just happened! Thanks for that.


Monington & Weston 1930's baby grand, an old Roland and a portable Yamaha
http://wavesculptor.net/piano-world/Trev_n_lady_Monington.jpg
Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Trev-M] #2936721 01/21/20 12:38 PM
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Hi

Not familiar with that technique but it sounds similar (but perhaps the reverse of) to the Floyd Crammer "slip note" technique.

Cheers


Simon
Yamaha CLP535
Vox Continental 73


Play what you enjoy listening to, listen to what you enjoy playing!




Re: Guitar "Hammer-on"-like technique - any ideas? [Re: Simon_b] #2936736 01/21/20 01:27 PM
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Simon, thanks for this input. Starting to get a perspective on this. Crammer seems to be combining what I'm talking about with a grace note, actually struck, just before the main chord, maybe beginning on the beat too; can't listen to as much as I'd need to work it out exactly or I'd end up in hospital. Doing his technique to death on the recording I listened to. Never thought I'd ever hear C&W piano as lead and feature.


Monington & Weston 1930's baby grand, an old Roland and a portable Yamaha
http://wavesculptor.net/piano-world/Trev_n_lady_Monington.jpg

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