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Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934099 01/15/20 08:21 AM
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The reason why I bought a Zoom Q3HD was that it had a LINE IN port. So I could directly connect my mixer's main L/R out to the line in port of the Zoom using a cable like this one and record video and audio (Zoom Q3HD disables the onboard mics when line in is connected). That way I got rid of the audio/video syncing process.

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Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2934146 01/15/20 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by WTM
...and sync it up with the video I record on my camcorder.


This is exactly what i'm trying to avoid. eek The recordings sound great btw.


Originally Posted by Hakki
The reason why I bought a Zoom Q3HD was that it had a LINE IN port. So I could directly connect my mixer's main L/R out to the line in port of the Zoom using a cable like this one and record video and audio (Zoom Q3HD disables the onboard mics when line in is connected). That way I got rid of the audio/video syncing process.


I see! That's a nice solution, but of course it still leaves us with the mediocre video quality of the zoom camera's. Right now I'm thinking about maybe just buying a used Zoom Q8 and good mics like the Rode's or the Oktava's. I didn't want the Q8 at first because of drawbacks like bad video quality in low/average light conditions, and the 4gb file separation while recording.

But, i think it would work reasonably well and simple, and I found this video of someone playing piano with rode nt5's connected to a Zoom Q8, and another video of someone playing a handpan recorded on a Zoom q8 with Oktava mk-12's, both sound pretty good to me:

https://youtu.be/wvS4cY3fog0
https://youtu.be/LrQqwmSEwU4

I don't know what would happen with the sound quality if i buy a good mixer/mic pre amp, but then feed the signal trough the mic input of a camera with decent video quality. (so not a Zoom camera)

With the Q8 and mics at least i can do my recordings, and maybe hope Zoom makes a new version of the Q8 in the future which fixes it's downsides.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934167 01/15/20 09:59 AM
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Zoom Q8 specs say EIN -120. Not very good. But can you stand that fish eye lens?

Here is sound sample recorded with NT5 with OMNI capsules at distant A-B setup. Sound from mixer to Zoom line in.

https://app.box.com/s/jlxuijdt6mg8219ynyle7dxqr0rcjk7b

Last edited by Hakki; 01/15/20 10:08 AM.
Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2934179 01/15/20 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Zoom Q8 specs say EIN -120. Not very good. But can you stand that fish eye lens?


Yes, it's far from perfect, and i don't really like the fish eye lens either. But, i'm thinking about it because there just don't seem to be many other options.

Your setup is probably better tough, how is the lens on the Q3HD? Thanks for the example, it definitely sounds nice and clean. Great playing btw, is that you?

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934186 01/15/20 10:25 AM
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I edited my above post to include a recent audio sample of my setup.

And here is an old video taken ny Zoom Q3HD. Audio is again from Rode NT5 pair, from mixer to line in of Zoom Q3 HD. But in this video the mics were closer to the piano and about 60 cm apart. Whereas on the recent audio sample I gave above they are 40 cm apart and about 2.4 metets away from the piano. I prefer that setup now.

https://youtu.be/vlEcM6vL2Lk

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2934187 01/15/20 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
The reason why I bought a Zoom Q3HD was that it had a LINE IN port.


So, the line-in on the Zoom is different than the mic inputs on most other camera's? Or did you choose the zoom because of the recording in higher quality audio files, bitrate etc?

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934194 01/15/20 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
And here is an old video taken ny Zoom Q3HD. Audio is again from Rode NT5 pair, from mixer to line in of Zoom Q3 HD. But in this video the mics were closer to the piano and about 60 cm apart. Whereas on the recent audio sample I gave above they are 40 cm apart and about 2.4 metets away from the piano. I prefer that setup now.

https://youtu.be/vlEcM6vL2Lk


Well, the audio is great, the video quality could be better, but I can live with that, and your playing makes up for it! I don't know if mine would too tough, that could be a problem. smirk

Btw thanks alot for all your effort in helping me out here, it is really helpful, it had gotten pretty confusing, all these options! I already know alot more than a few days ago now.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934204 01/15/20 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by Hakki
The reason why I bought a Zoom Q3HD was that it had a LINE IN port.


So, the line-in on the Zoom is different than the mic inputs on most other camera's? Or did you choose the zoom because of the recording in higher quality audio files, bitrate etc?


Yes line level is different. And yes I bought it just because it had that line in port.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2934211 01/15/20 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Yes line level is different. And yes I bought it just because it had that line in port.


Do you perhaps know if the Q4 and Q4n have the same line-in? It's called "ext-in" on those.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934220 01/15/20 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by Hakki
Yes line level is different. And yes I bought it just because it had that line in port.


Do you perhaps know if the Q4 and Q4n have the same line-in? It's called "ext-in" on those.


According to this video Q4N will accept anything, which includes the line out of the mixer.
Though she is connecting the headphones out to the camera, still I would go from main out using the cable I posted above. Also Q4n is said to have better video quality under low light conditions.

https://youtu.be/SYSwacQRkA4

And here is a recording she made with that setup

https://youtu.be/6Fd44hGKk5Y

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2934221 01/15/20 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by U3piano

Do you perhaps know if the Q4 and Q4n have the same line-in? It's called "ext-in" on those.


According to this video Q4N will accept anything, which includes the line out of the mixer.
Though she is connecting the headphones out to the camera, still I would go from main out using the cable I posted above. Also Q4n is said to have better video quality under low light conditions.


After a Google search I now understand the difference between a mic input and a line-in input.

I checked the manuals. The Q4 and Q4n have a combined mic/line-in input, so yes, it will accept anything. I guess that will be as good as the dedicated line-in input of the Q3HD.

When it comes to the low light conditions i don't expect much, I bought a Q2n-4k a while ago, and sended it back, because it was terrible overall, except for the sound quality.

I agree with your advice, and probably will buy a Q3HD or Q4N and a mixer, and route the cable from the main out to the line-in on the zoom like you did.

But first i will look if there are other/better around with line-in and decent sound recording specifications, but I doubt ill find something better at about the same price level.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934243 01/15/20 12:43 PM
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I found the Sony HDR-MV1 also has a line-in input, maybe worth looking into, I will.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934313 01/15/20 03:38 PM
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One drawback of Sony MV1 might be that it records at 16 bit 48 kHz. Not that it is not adequate for home recordings, I recorded my videos at 16 bit and 44.1 kHz. But in case you might want to record at 24 bit 96 kHz that is not possible with the MV1.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934326 01/15/20 04:06 PM
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There is one more drawback of the Sony MV1 I found out about, really minor tough..

It isn't being sold anymore. smirk

There are a couple on ebay, but i can get a used h4n for about half the price these mv1's are offered at.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934330 01/15/20 04:25 PM
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H4n? That is audio only.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2934331 01/15/20 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
H4n? That is audio only.

Your right, I meant Q4n.

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934368 01/15/20 06:01 PM
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I need something better then my cellphone as well. Would a Tascam DR series be sufficient? I would prefer not to use extra microphones


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Learux] #2934375 01/15/20 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Learux
I need something better then my cellphone as well. Would a Tascam DR series be sufficient? I would prefer not to use extra microphones


I have a Tascam DR-100 MKIII and I think it is an amazing digital recorder and I don’t use it with external microphones. My piano playing is not in a place where I record myself but I have recorded classical guitar. The MKIII has a very low noise floor. Here are the specs:

https://tascam.com/us/product/dr-100mkiii/top


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Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: Hakki] #2934397 01/15/20 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Now that you have decided to go with NT5, you will need an interface with low noise quality preamps.
The value to look for is E.I.N .


The recording I made of the Brahms piece was done with a Behringer UR22-MK2that clocks in at about 115EUR in Austria. It's distinctly better in terms of dynamic reproduction than my standalone Tascam DR44-WL and the good thing is that

a) works with Linux out of the box (I use audacity as my DAW)
b) Samples up to 192kHz at 24 Bit

It's basically a Yamaha pre-amplifier in there at a really incredibly good price. Together with the Røde NT5 this will make you really happy playing around with all kinds of mic positioning.

And trust me: You'll be disappointed with your first recordings. Takes a lot of trial and error in your specific environment to catch the sound that is what you want. But you'll get there. And make sure that you play around with both the cardioid and omni capsules.

Did my recording play a role in the decision you've made?

Re: Microphones to record acoustic piano [Re: U3piano] #2934431 01/15/20 08:52 PM
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I apologize for the misinformation:

* The product I was talking about is by Steinberg, not by Behringer
* I overlooked your statement that you don't want to record on a PC

However: I found something that might actually be the solution you are looking for:

PMD-602A 2-channel DSLR Audio Interface by Marantz

It's the first thing I found with your requirements. I am confident there are more Interfaces out there hat will do a similar or better job. I find it disappointing that so far I have not found a piece of equipment that avoids a second analog path into a camera. There should be cameras out there that accept USB Audio input, but it seems like DSLRs are not among them.

Anyway, I wanted to give you a pointer to possible alternatives.

Last edited by OE1FEU; 01/15/20 08:53 PM.
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