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Perhaps for a 6 year old (or even any age), "fooling around" with fun things on the keyboard, is not always such a bad idea. It is training their ears and possibly sparking their creativity and interest in music.
Nothing develops hearing and musical gifts better than a real acoustic instrument. Doesn't have to be a piano though, there are less expensive options, that are just as good. They are a blessing. But why restrict it to acoustic, and use the word "real" in front of acoustic? (As if only an acoustic instrument has ontological status). Real acoustic instruments create unique sounds, even when played badly. (Not only talking about acoustic keyboard instruments, which are already pretty limited in the way that sound can be controlled.) OTOH arranger keyboards just play back prerecorded samples and pre-made accompaniments. That's of course awesome for impressing adults, but it's not really what a child needs.
Yamaha P-515
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That said, if they are mechanically the same (?) ...
They are. ... then that would be quite interesting that they managed to make them feel quite different.
I notice a similar effect when I play my PX-160 through various voices on PianoTeq, so it's not surprising to me that they genuinely felt different when you tried them out.
Enthusiastic but mediocre amateur.
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If I were choosing an instrument for my 6-year old to learn with, I would give the most weight to the one her teacher suggested..... the Yamaha P-45.
Instead of wading through countless options with countless pros and cons …..
Her teacher suggested theYamaha P-45 for a reason, it was not just a wild guess.
Curious ? You may wish to ask her teacher why she/he suggested the Yamaha P-45.
My guess is that the reason will be … because the Yamaha P-45 will enable her to stay focused on learning her lessons and not stray off into some "play time" tangent instead.
Just a thought.
Last edited by dmd; 01/14/20 04:46 PM.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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My guess is that the reason will be … because the Yamaha P-45 will enable her to stay focused on learning her lessons and not stray off into some "play time" tangent instead.
The Roland FP-10 is also good for discouraging going off on a tangent - it only has a couple of buttons. Also given that the FP-10 has only been out for less that a year so there is a high likelihood that the teacher is not aware it even exists, or has not played on it themselves.
Last edited by Burkie; 01/14/20 05:01 PM.
Pianos are one of the best human inventions of the past 323 years - help evangelize the magic!
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The Casio PX S series actions has the misfortune of a short pivot length design, thus the force required to depress a key becomes much heavier the further back into the keys one plays. I didn't notice it at first, and I can play it, but after about 15 minutes its fatiguing and thus discouraging. It's far more exaggerated than on a real Steinway, Yamaha, or Baldwin acoustic piano which have substantially longer pivot distances, thus more efficient leverage. PX S series is not a recommended action, imo.
Find 660 of Harry's solo piano arrangements for educational purposes and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."
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For a different suggestion than the usual ones you’ve read here so far, see if you can find a Casio CGP-700 used and in good shape. Lots of versatility for the tech savvy generation, lots of fun sounds, and a speaker system that isn’t a weak-kneed afterthought: https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/review-casio-cgp-700-and-privia-px-560/
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Apologies for going offtopic: Perhaps for a 6 year old (or even any age), "fooling around" with fun things on the keyboard, is not always such a bad idea. It is training their ears and possibly sparking their creativity and interest in music.
Nothing develops hearing and musical gifts better than a real acoustic instrument. Doesn't have to be a piano though, there are less expensive options, that are just as good. They are a blessing. But why restrict it to acoustic, and use the word "real" in front of acoustic? (As if only an acoustic instrument has ontological status). Real acoustic instruments create unique sounds, even when played badly. (Not only talking about acoustic keyboard instruments, which are already pretty limited in the way that sound can be controlled.) OTOH arranger keyboards just play back prerecorded samples and pre-made accompaniments. That's of course awesome for impressing adults, but it's not really what a child needs. I haven't had a keyboard for years. However, when I had a keyboard and I was 14-15, I would already make all the layers myself e.g. record my own drum track, my own walking bass, my own comping piano, my own "saxophone" improvisation. When you play and combine all the instruments in the band yourself, it's one of the quickest and most fun (and least demanding) ways to understand concepts from music theory. You don't need to explain to a child about the need for writing rootless voicings on the piano, when they made the walking bass track themselves which included the roots. As for auto-accompaniments - in my opinion these themselves can be very good training for young students, as they function as both a metronome and they teach simple harmonic changes. So children who play with the auto accompaniment should be developing a good sense of pulse, the same as if they were using a metronome with their practice.
Last edited by 3am_stargazing; 01/14/20 08:45 PM.
Kawai K-500 | M-Audio Keystation 49 | Casio PX-S1000 | ADAM Audio T8V
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I haven't had a keyboard for years. However, when I had a keyboard and I was 14-15, I would already make all the layers myself e.g. record my own drum track, my own walking bass, my own comping piano, my own "saxophone" improvisation.
When you play and combine all the instruments in the band yourself, it's one of the quickest and most fun (and least demanding) ways to understand concepts from music theory. You don't need to explain to a child about the need for writing rootless voicings on the piano, when they made the walking bass track themselves which included the roots.
As for auto-accompaniments - in my opinion these themselves can be very good training for young students, as they function as both a metronome and they teach simple harmonic changes. So children who play with the auto accompaniment should be developing a good sense of pulse, the same as if they were using a metronome with their practice. I completely agree with you, 3am_stargazing. I was about to type out the same sort of reply, in fact almost word for word, so you saved me the effort, thanks!
Last edited by camperbc; 01/14/20 09:07 PM.
Glen www.FocusOnNewfoundland.com- Casio (Casiotone) CT-S300 - 2020 - Casio (Privia) PX-870BK - 2019 - Casio (Casiotone) CT-680 - 1990 - Yamaha (Portatone) PS-25 - 1983 - Yamaha (Portasound) PS-2 - 1980
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Folks, she's 6 years old. And the OP hasn't posted in this thread since he started it.
Find 660 of Harry's solo piano arrangements for educational purposes and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."
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Folks, she's 6 years old. And the OP hasn't posted in this thread since he started it. Well, you are partly correct ….. he posted again at 9:14 this morning. However, it is worth repeating for those who may have missed it …. she is 6 years old ….. get a grip.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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Haha, you make me all smile. Sorry but I am in London and the time difference cut me off, also left my laptop at work so sorry for the delay in my reply. I can see how passionate you all are about pianos/keyboards etc which is great and exactly the reason why I have posted in the first place. My daughter has played recorder for 2 years now and although she is only 6 years old, she is playing with 9-10 year olds as she is quite advanced and loves it. Equally, she only started playing the piano a few weeks back but is already playing with both hands. So while I dont know if thats a good sign or not, she is enjoying it and we want to give her a base to explore how far she wants to go. Some of your comments are a bit to technical for me, sorry, but I understand that there is a big difference in some of the models, otherwise there would not be so many. Her teacher recommended the Yamaha because she learnt on it but she also has a proper piano in the house so more than one to choose from. Now the casio appealed to us as it sparked excitement in her to have some background music going etc. I have been offered a px 750 for about £350 which might be a good price? I have just read one review that the keys are not weighted which would be a showstopper as I want her to play on a realistic instrument. Sorry to be such a pain! Thanks for all your help, will look into the Kawai and Roland models too. Thanks
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Haha, you make me all smile. Sorry but I am in London and the time difference cut me off, also left my laptop at work so sorry for the delay in my reply. I can see how passionate you all are about pianos/keyboards etc which is great and exactly the reason why I have posted in the first place. My daughter has played recorder for 2 years now and although she is only 6 years old, she is playing with 9-10 year olds as she is quite advanced and loves it. Equally, she only started playing the piano a few weeks back but is already playing with both hands. So while I dont know if thats a good sign or not, she is enjoying it and we want to give her a base to explore how far she wants to go. Some of your comments are a bit to technical for me, sorry, but I understand that there is a big difference in some of the models, otherwise there would not be so many. Her teacher recommended the Yamaha because she learnt on it but she also has a proper piano in the house so more than one to choose from. Now the casio appealed to us as it sparked excitement in her to have some background music going etc. I have been offered a px 750 for about £350 which might be a good price? I have just read one review that the keys are not weighted which would be a showstopper as I want her to play on a realistic instrument. Sorry to be such a pain! Thanks for all your help, will look into the Kawai and Roland models too. Thanks 1. Personally, I would recommend buying new for this budget price range. As digital pianos are subject to wear and have a shorter lifespan (they are more like disposable consumer electronics, than acoustic pianos). The newer models are also often improving to some extent every few years. There's also a limited manufacturer's warranty. The warranty expires after 3 years for Casio in the UK. 2. I recommend trying in a shop showroom, but then buying from an online retailer like Rimmers which has really cheap prices. Rimmers has quite bad communication and mixed reviews online (they don't really message you when you order from them), but I had a good experience buying from them in the sense my digital piano arrived a day after I ordered it in perfect condition. You can also compare with other online retailers - some have better reviews and prices than others. For example, Gear4music has good reviews, while Andertons has bad reviews. 3. PX 750 seems to be an older and discontinued model, so £350 seems to be too expensive for an older model. Because you can buy the new model (PX 760) for just £150 more. 3. In the £400- £550 range (including furniture stands), there's still a lot of options with weighted keys. The new version of the Casio you were offered (the Casio PX 760) is £500. https://www.rimmersmusic.co.uk/casio-privia-px760-digital-piano-black-p21722If you want more of a "bells and whistles" arranger keyboard, the Casio CDP S350 (plus furniture stand) is £450. https://www.rimmersmusic.co.uk/casio-cdps350-ultra-compact-digital-piano-stand-package-p43407 You can scroll through other options in this price range: https://www.rimmersmusic.co.uk/pianos-c3/digital-pianos-inc-portable-pianos-c10#page3:sort3 The Kawai ES 110 is £454. But with the Kawai furniture stand (which you would have to buy separately) it would be around £540 total. https://www.rimmersmusic.co.uk/kawai-es-110-portable-piano-white-p37859
Last edited by 3am_stargazing; 01/16/20 02:12 PM.
Kawai K-500 | M-Audio Keystation 49 | Casio PX-S1000 | ADAM Audio T8V
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[ Perhaps for a 6 year old (or even any age), "fooling around" with fun things on the keyboard, is not always such a bad idea. It is training their ears and possibly sparking their creativity and interest in music.
A year ago when my grandsons were 5 and 7 respectively, I bought a Yamaha NP32 in introduced them to the piano with Piano Marvel ( www.pianomarvel.com). They loved it - in fact so much so that the 7 (now 8) year old has been taking lessons for a year and is preparing for his grade 1 exam. I did sell the Yamaha NP32 and bought a Yamaha P45 for myself so I could practice in holiday. If I were to do it again I would by the P45 initially (it has 88 properly weighted keys and is about £100 cheaper than the Roland FP10 and Yamaha 121 and Kawai ES110) - but still introduce my grandsons to Piano Marvel. The really nice thing about piano marvel is that it teaches the children the things they need to learn as a piano student - yet its packaged like a video game so that want to "practice" over and over again to score 100%. The 5 year old had an hours session and the 7 year old had a 3 hours session the first time and neither wanted to stop. So at the basics it covers note lengths and rhythms and moves on the scales and chords and ear training - but also includes simple pieces to learn that get progressively harder as you get more advanced. I myself had to learn Bach's Prelude in C last year and am now trying to learn a bit of Mozarts Eine Kliene Nachtmusik at level 6.
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If you want more of a "bells and whistles" arranger keyboard, the Casio CDP S350 (plus furniture stand) is £450.
To be honest, for a child where the future usage is open, I would not recommend going for the CDP line because the PX (and AP) line has much better key action. Among the PX series I would recommend models from year 2012 -- typically the x50, x60, x70 models but there are some new exceptions. It can be a wise decision to buy a used digital piano when the piano is originally at least a category better at least and not a fossil, and as long as it is really in a good condition.
Kawai KDP-90
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Piano
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Piano
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