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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2933468 01/13/20 07:35 PM
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I played the N1X for the first time yesterday and it does feel nice. I tried it side by side the NU1X and the CLP-675.

The N1X action was light and smooth - you could easily play it for hours without hurting your fingers or hands.

The NU1X action was significantly heavier and with more friction, more similar to a mid-range acoustic.

The CLP-675 has a higher static key weight than both, which results in the keys stalling for a few hundred milliseconds before accelerating downwards.

It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar feel to the key action, and about 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.

Last edited by Burkie; 01/13/20 07:45 PM.
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Burkie] #2933471 01/13/20 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Burkie


It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar action, and 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.


LX 706 doesn't really have a "similar" action. The LX and CA are not hybrids like the N1X is - that's why it costs so much more. A real action is expensive.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Kougeru] #2933473 01/13/20 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kougeru
Originally Posted by Burkie


It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar action, and 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.


LX 706 doesn't really have a "similar" action. The LX and CA are not hybrids like the N1X is - that's why it costs so much more. A real action is expensive.


Similar feel to the key action - light and smooth.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2933477 01/13/20 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
How does the N1X do with partial pedaling? Do you feel less resonance when only pushing the pedal down slightly?


It does fine with partial pedal, and could be another approach Tyrone takes with it, but I would defer to his teacher.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Kougeru] #2933479 01/13/20 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kougeru
Originally Posted by Burkie


It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar action, and 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.


A real action is expensive.


Are you claiming other actions are make-believe?!

I strongly suggest that you look up what 'real' means in a dictionary smile

Roland, Yamaha, and Kawai all use combinations of plastic and wood in their actions.

Last edited by Burkie; 01/13/20 08:01 PM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Chrispy] #2933501 01/13/20 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrispy
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
How does the N1X do with partial pedaling? Do you feel less resonance when only pushing the pedal down slightly?


It does fine with partial pedal, and could be another approach Tyrone takes with it, but I would defer to his teacher.

I'm, at best, an intermediate piano student. I've tried half-pedaling as a way of addressing this piece. It's actually very hard for me. I can find the seemingly tiny N1X half-pedaling window in test conditions when I am playing one note, but no way I could find it when playing for real. Oh, I'm sure I'll eventually learn. But I think I'd need a lot of half-pedaling exercises first. Definitely not easier than doing the pedaling (above) which my teacher has asked me to do.

In fact, if anyone has any ideas for good half-pedaling exercises, I wouldn't mind trying to do some of those exercises!


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2933580 01/14/20 06:01 AM
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A real piano action is similar to a plastic digital piano action as far as you initially push a weight on both. And that’s also where the similarities end.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2933591 01/14/20 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
A real piano action is similar to a plastic digital piano action as far as you initially push a weight on both. And that’s also where the similarities end.

As already highlighted: Yamaha use plastic in their N1X action, so going by your definition the N1X has a fake action.

*deleted by moderator*

Wood warps over time due to fluctuations in temperature and humidity - that's why Kawai uses other materials in their millennium-III action.

Last edited by BB Player; 01/14/20 10:03 AM. Reason: Insulting comment deleted. Just because others have an opinion that’s different than yours does not make them ignorant.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Burkie] #2933595 01/14/20 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by CyberGene
A real piano action is similar to a plastic digital piano action as far as you initially push a weight on both. And that’s also where the similarities end.

As already highlighted: Yamaha use plastic in their N1X action, so going by your definition the N1X has a fake action.

Only the ignorant, luddites, and snobs could possibly think that plastic = fake, and wood = real!

Wood warps over time due to fluctuations in temperature and humidity - that's why Kawai uses other materials in their millennium-III action.

OK.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2933634 01/14/20 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Chrispy
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
How does the N1X do with partial pedaling? Do you feel less resonance when only pushing the pedal down slightly?


It does fine with partial pedal, and could be another approach Tyrone takes with it, but I would defer to his teacher.

I'm, at best, an intermediate piano student. I've tried half-pedaling as a way of addressing this piece. It's actually very hard for me. I can find the seemingly tiny N1X half-pedaling window in test conditions when I am playing one note, but no way I could find it when playing for real. Oh, I'm sure I'll eventually learn. But I think I'd need a lot of half-pedaling exercises first. Definitely not easier than doing the pedaling (above) which my teacher has asked me to do.

In fact, if anyone has any ideas for good half-pedaling exercises, I wouldn't mind trying to do some of those exercises!


I don't know of any exercises, just something you experiment and play with. And it will be different on the next piano you sit at. Maybe try with simple chord progressions. My teacher has spoken to me about how she feels there are different levels of pedaling, but this is on a Steinway.

Graham Fitch has a fractional pedaling video out there, but to see the whole thing I think you need to be a member of his online academy.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Burkie] #2933656 01/14/20 10:42 AM
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If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: sleutelbos] #2933662 01/14/20 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile

Could you please refer to which post you are replying?


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2933829 01/14/20 04:56 PM
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All default settings - check. I was wondering if one needed to fiddle with the VRM or similar, but it doesn't sound like it.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2933911 01/14/20 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile

Could you please refer to which post you are replying?


To the discussion between you and Burkie in general. Not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you in particular, just stating that in my humble opinion the distinction of 'natural/wood' vs 'composite' materials is not a very important one, and that it ultimately is about 'good' vs 'not-so-good' quality. I am somewhat active in the synth community, and with NAMM coming up people are analyzing new instruments based on spec sheets and press statements. Sometimes discussions in the piano community remind me of those discussions.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2933997 01/15/20 02:44 AM
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There wasn’t a “discussion” between me and Burkie. I stated that the mechanics and feel of real-piano action is very different than the mechanics of (usually plastic) digital-piano action. He grossly misinterpreted that statement as a comparison between wood and plastic and went on to prove me wrong which is a Straw man argument. So, there wasn’t a discussion. It was just BS. So, please don’t keep on with that line of argument.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/15/20 02:45 AM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2933998 01/15/20 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
There wasn’t a “discussion” between me and Burkie. I stated that the mechanics and feel of real-piano action is very different than the mechanics of (usually plastic) digital-piano action. He grossly misinterpreted that statement as a comparison between wood and plastic and went on to prove me wrong which is a Straw man argument. So, there wasn’t a discussion. It was just BS. So, please don’t keep on with that line of argument.

Being so logical on the internet isn't allowed smile

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: sleutelbos] #2934007 01/15/20 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile


They don't use plastic digital piano keys on their grands.

Last edited by johnstaf; 01/15/20 03:13 AM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: elendil] #2934073 01/15/20 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by elendil
Thank you.

My price is in the same ballpark, Cybergene, although from a local piano shop (Juhl-Sørensen. The same I bought my CA-97 from. They're very service-minded).

What to do about settings? All default, or?

I think I'm a big fan of the UI. If you're good at remembering, making changes takes almost no time and it's all very unobtrusive (the small display blacks out quickly).


I haven't yet found my final settings. But at the moment I usually just switch off the reverb while everything else is set to default. Strangely, though, my N1X was tuned to 38khz instead of 44. I stumbled upon this by accident. Maybe someone fiddled with the settings in the store? So this may be worth checking, depending on where you bought yours.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2934246 01/15/20 12:49 PM
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Mine is sealed in the original box, so I presume it has factory settings. Regardless, I'm going to start it up holding C7.

It's been sitting in the garage since this morning. When for once you don't have time to play with something you've ordered it arrives almost before it was sent. Typical. Tomorrow, hopefully!

PS: Not to nitpick, but I presume your N1X was tuned to A3=380 Hz, not 38000 Hz which wouldn't be fun to listen to at all. Or did I entirely misread what you wrote?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: johnstaf] #2934254 01/15/20 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile


They don't use plastic digital piano keys on their grands.


I didn't say that. You even quoted me so not sure where the confusion arises.

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