2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
61 members (Alex_Ki, andredatele, Carey, anotherscott, Abdol, AndyE, 15 invisible), 461 guests, and 506 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 115 of 176 1 2 113 114 115 116 117 175 176
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2933468 01/13/20 07:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
I played the N1X for the first time yesterday and it does feel nice. I tried it side by side the NU1X and the CLP-675.

The N1X action was light and smooth - you could easily play it for hours without hurting your fingers or hands.

The NU1X action was significantly heavier and with more friction, more similar to a mid-range acoustic.

The CLP-675 has a higher static key weight than both, which results in the keys stalling for a few hundred milliseconds before accelerating downwards.

It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar feel to the key action, and about 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.

Last edited by Burkie; 01/13/20 07:45 PM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
(ad)
Sweetwater Sale
Sweetwater Sale
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Burkey #2933471 01/13/20 07:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 145
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 145
Originally Posted by Burkie


It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar action, and 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.


LX 706 doesn't really have a "similar" action. The LX and CA are not hybrids like the N1X is - that's why it costs so much more. A real action is expensive.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Kougeru #2933473 01/13/20 07:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by Kougeru
Originally Posted by Burkie


It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar action, and 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.


LX 706 doesn't really have a "similar" action. The LX and CA are not hybrids like the N1X is - that's why it costs so much more. A real action is expensive.


Similar feel to the key action - light and smooth.


Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
bSharp(C)yclist #2933477 01/13/20 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,445
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,445
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
How does the N1X do with partial pedaling? Do you feel less resonance when only pushing the pedal down slightly?


It does fine with partial pedal, and could be another approach Tyrone takes with it, but I would defer to his teacher.


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, R. Schumann Fantasy Dance, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Kougeru #2933479 01/13/20 07:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by Kougeru
Originally Posted by Burkie


It's a shame that what I consider the entry-level Yamaha (N1X) is AUD $10,000 - double the price of the Roland LX706 with similar action, and 3 times the price of the Kawai CA78/79.

If Yamaha dropped the price by 50% they would increase sales through the roof and maximize profit.


A real action is expensive.


Are you claiming other actions are make-believe?!

I strongly suggest that you look up what 'real' means in a dictionary smile

Roland, Yamaha, and Kawai all use combinations of plastic and wood in their actions.

Last edited by Burkie; 01/13/20 08:01 PM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2933501 01/13/20 09:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by Chrispy
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
How does the N1X do with partial pedaling? Do you feel less resonance when only pushing the pedal down slightly?


It does fine with partial pedal, and could be another approach Tyrone takes with it, but I would defer to his teacher.

I'm, at best, an intermediate piano student. I've tried half-pedaling as a way of addressing this piece. It's actually very hard for me. I can find the seemingly tiny N1X half-pedaling window in test conditions when I am playing one note, but no way I could find it when playing for real. Oh, I'm sure I'll eventually learn. But I think I'd need a lot of half-pedaling exercises first. Definitely not easier than doing the pedaling (above) which my teacher has asked me to do.

In fact, if anyone has any ideas for good half-pedaling exercises, I wouldn't mind trying to do some of those exercises!


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2933580 01/14/20 06:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
A real piano action is similar to a plastic digital piano action as far as you initially push a weight on both. And that’s also where the similarities end.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2933591 01/14/20 07:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
B
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by CyberGene
A real piano action is similar to a plastic digital piano action as far as you initially push a weight on both. And that’s also where the similarities end.

As already highlighted: Yamaha use plastic in their N1X action, so going by your definition the N1X has a fake action.

*deleted by moderator*

Wood warps over time due to fluctuations in temperature and humidity - that's why Kawai uses other materials in their millennium-III action.

Last edited by BB Player; 01/14/20 10:03 AM. Reason: Insulting comment deleted. Just because others have an opinion that’s different than yours does not make them ignorant.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Burkey #2933595 01/14/20 07:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by CyberGene
A real piano action is similar to a plastic digital piano action as far as you initially push a weight on both. And that’s also where the similarities end.

As already highlighted: Yamaha use plastic in their N1X action, so going by your definition the N1X has a fake action.

Only the ignorant, luddites, and snobs could possibly think that plastic = fake, and wood = real!

Wood warps over time due to fluctuations in temperature and humidity - that's why Kawai uses other materials in their millennium-III action.

OK.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2933634 01/14/20 09:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,328
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,328
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Chrispy
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
How does the N1X do with partial pedaling? Do you feel less resonance when only pushing the pedal down slightly?


It does fine with partial pedal, and could be another approach Tyrone takes with it, but I would defer to his teacher.

I'm, at best, an intermediate piano student. I've tried half-pedaling as a way of addressing this piece. It's actually very hard for me. I can find the seemingly tiny N1X half-pedaling window in test conditions when I am playing one note, but no way I could find it when playing for real. Oh, I'm sure I'll eventually learn. But I think I'd need a lot of half-pedaling exercises first. Definitely not easier than doing the pedaling (above) which my teacher has asked me to do.

In fact, if anyone has any ideas for good half-pedaling exercises, I wouldn't mind trying to do some of those exercises!


I don't know of any exercises, just something you experiment and play with. And it will be different on the next piano you sit at. Maybe try with simple chord progressions. My teacher has spoken to me about how she feels there are different levels of pedaling, but this is on a Steinway.

Graham Fitch has a fractional pedaling video out there, but to see the whole thing I think you need to be a member of his online academy.


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
Yamaha C3X
YouTube
[Linked Image]
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Burkey #2933656 01/14/20 10:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 356
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 356
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
sleutelbos #2933662 01/14/20 10:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile

Could you please refer to which post you are replying?


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2933829 01/14/20 04:56 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156
All default settings - check. I was wondering if one needed to fiddle with the VRM or similar, but it doesn't sound like it.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2933911 01/14/20 07:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 356
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile

Could you please refer to which post you are replying?


To the discussion between you and Burkie in general. Not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you in particular, just stating that in my humble opinion the distinction of 'natural/wood' vs 'composite' materials is not a very important one, and that it ultimately is about 'good' vs 'not-so-good' quality. I am somewhat active in the synth community, and with NAMM coming up people are analyzing new instruments based on spec sheets and press statements. Sometimes discussions in the piano community remind me of those discussions.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2933997 01/15/20 02:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
6000 Post Club Member
Online Content
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,235
There wasn’t a “discussion” between me and Burkie. I stated that the mechanics and feel of real-piano action is very different than the mechanics of (usually plastic) digital-piano action. He grossly misinterpreted that statement as a comparison between wood and plastic and went on to prove me wrong which is a Straw man argument. So, there wasn’t a discussion. It was just BS. So, please don’t keep on with that line of argument.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/15/20 02:45 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2933998 01/15/20 02:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,254
O
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,254
Originally Posted by CyberGene
There wasn’t a “discussion” between me and Burkie. I stated that the mechanics and feel of real-piano action is very different than the mechanics of (usually plastic) digital-piano action. He grossly misinterpreted that statement as a comparison between wood and plastic and went on to prove me wrong which is a Straw man argument. So, there wasn’t a discussion. It was just BS. So, please don’t keep on with that line of argument.

Being so logical on the internet isn't allowed smile

Osho


Mason & Hamlin BB
Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

[Linked Image]
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
sleutelbos #2934007 01/15/20 03:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,598
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,598
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile


They don't use plastic digital piano keys on their grands.

Last edited by johnstaf; 01/15/20 03:13 AM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
elendil #2934073 01/15/20 06:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 8
L
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
L
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by elendil
Thank you.

My price is in the same ballpark, Cybergene, although from a local piano shop (Juhl-Sørensen. The same I bought my CA-97 from. They're very service-minded).

What to do about settings? All default, or?

I think I'm a big fan of the UI. If you're good at remembering, making changes takes almost no time and it's all very unobtrusive (the small display blacks out quickly).


I haven't yet found my final settings. But at the moment I usually just switch off the reverb while everything else is set to default. Strangely, though, my N1X was tuned to 38khz instead of 44. I stumbled upon this by accident. Maybe someone fiddled with the settings in the store? So this may be worth checking, depending on where you bought yours.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2934246 01/15/20 12:49 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156
Mine is sealed in the original box, so I presume it has factory settings. Regardless, I'm going to start it up holding C7.

It's been sitting in the garage since this morning. When for once you don't have time to play with something you've ordered it arrives almost before it was sent. Typical. Tomorrow, hopefully!

PS: Not to nitpick, but I presume your N1X was tuned to A3=380 Hz, not 38000 Hz which wouldn't be fun to listen to at all. Or did I entirely misread what you wrote?

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
johnstaf #2934254 01/15/20 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 356
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by sleutelbos
If Kawai feels comfortable using composite materials in the action of a €250,000 grand piano the 'all wood' rhetoric means little to me. In any case, if I need to check the manual to determine if an action I play is real/good/whatever then what is the point? If I can't feel it myself it isn't worth thinking too much about it. smile


They don't use plastic digital piano keys on their grands.


I didn't say that. You even quoted me so not sure where the confusion arises.

Page 115 of 176 1 2 113 114 115 116 117 175 176

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
JBL, iLoud monitor spkrs, Black Friday sales
by anotherscott - 11/27/20 03:09 PM
Keyfront overhang removal
by TimM_980 - 11/27/20 02:49 PM
Blues in a Band
by TheophilusCarter - 11/27/20 02:39 PM
The cheapest new 6-foot grand piano
by Vikendios - 11/27/20 12:58 PM
Inspired by 'long sustain' Singing Piano
by doremi - 11/27/20 08:18 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,080
Posts3,027,813
Members99,384
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4