2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
27 registered members (Ganddalf, grd-dan, earlofmar, BachToTheFuture, barbaram, Catlady, 6 invisible), 259 guests, and 489 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Schubert Sonatas #2933177 01/13/20 05:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 397
F
Franz Beebert Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 397
Hi all! Schubert's sonatas have always been a treasure for me, and I have considered the last six sonatas, starting with D 845 to be equal in quality and stature to the greatest music ever written for the piano. But for long they were neglected, and still many people shy away from them partly because of their length. And also, many focus only on the last three sonatas, especially D 960. This is a work of transcendental quality and may well be his greatest sonata, but the other five are also masterpieces!

So what is your favorite sonata by Schubert of the last six ones? You can name more than one if you want.
And which sonata would you consider to be his greatest, if not D 960?
Would you consider D 845 and D 850 to be underrated works, of are they not as great as the last four sonatas?
Discuss! Not only these questions but I would love it if we talk around the subject of these sonatas, which deserve better than to constantly be compared to the sonatas of Beethoven and stand in his shadow!

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933418 01/13/20 05:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,055
AaronSF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,055
I'm working on D.894 in G right now. It is lovely and within my grasp technically. Frankly, I enjoy all of the sonatas; the last 3 are transcendent, to be sure.

To me it's always seemed that comparing Schubert's sonatas to Beethoven's is a case of comparing apples to oranges, so I agree with you there. Schubert's lyricism is without compare, and his harmonic sense is unique and, for me, totally engaging. His sonatas often surprise and take my breath away, even after having heard them many, many times. And no one can create and sustain a mood quite like Schubert. He touches my heart like no one else, and I often find myself while listening to Schubert sighing and saying to myself, "Ah, yes, thank heavens for Schubert." That he accomplished so much in his short time among us is phenomenal.


August Förster 215
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933431 01/13/20 05:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,856
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,856
IMO, the first great Schubert sonata is D784. It is also his most uncompromising and violent - which is why it's my favorite. whistle

Especially the way Richter played it, with implacable and granitic force:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAxuFcFSw_g

When an irresistible force met an immovable object, the object moved........just thumb


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933433 01/13/20 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 21
I
iaintagreatpianist Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
I
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 21
I remember hearing once that Horowitz said of Beethoven in his old age that, "Beethoven could not write a single note Schubert wrote!"
It may be true, especially when hearing gems as poetic as D. 894, and of course D. 960.

Last edited by iaintagreatpianist; 01/13/20 05:50 PM.

Pianist-in-training. Also an 18 year old who hasn't grown up at heart.

Some of my favorite composers: Ludwig van Beethoven, Franz Liszt, Edvard Grieg, Edward MacDowell.
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933458 01/13/20 06:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
I love the Reliquie.

D.784 and onwards are all masterpieces.

D.960 is da bomb.

I love the luminous agony in Brendels recordings.

Last edited by johnstaf; 01/13/20 06:58 PM.
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933521 01/13/20 10:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 100
B
BeeZee4 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 100
D. 959 in A major. From the opening chordal fanfare to the same closing motif which ends the Rondo, this is just a superlative display of music making. The heart of the sonata lies in the 2nd movement Andantino in F# minor, a slow lament culminating in a middle section of such despair, followed by resignation over his illness. He must have realized his syphilis condition would terminate in an early death. I picture the final Rondo is a lyrical melodic romp in the heavens.
I love playing the Rondo, it just feels so right on the fingers as to be almost therapeutic!

Andras Schiff's recording of all 3 sonatas on a period fortepiano is revelatory. The different timbres in each section of the keyboard and his use of 4 pedals gives an idea of what Schubert must have heard when he composed these masterpieces.


Estonia 190 #6209
Working on:
Bach's Goldbergs
Ravel: Une Barque sur l'Ocean
Rachmaninoff: Etude Tableaux Op. 39 No. 5 Eb minor
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933528 01/13/20 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 79
D
D959 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 79
The Rondo at the end of D959 is my favorite piece in the piano repertoire. See my name.

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: johnstaf] #2933538 01/14/20 12:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,589
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,589
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I love the Reliquie

So cool that you mention that sonata!!

I wouldn't have thought anybody knew that piece.

Well almost nobody. grin

I know it only because one of the people who did a completion of it (Noel Lee) played a recital with the piece on it, at my college.

51 years ago.
Or maybe it was 52 years ago....at my age I can't necessarily remember if something was in 1968 or 1969. ha

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Mark_C] #2933547 01/14/20 01:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
Originally Posted by Mark_C

So cool that you mention that sonata!!

I wouldn't have thought anybody knew that piece.


I don't know why it's not more popular. I only know it because of Mitsuko's Uchida's box set, although I have occasionally binged on Brendel's Schubert videos on Youtube...

Last edited by johnstaf; 01/14/20 01:38 AM.
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: D959] #2933548 01/14/20 01:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
Originally Posted by D959
The Rondo at the end of D959 is my favorite piece in the piano repertoire. See my name.


That's also one of my absolute favourite movements of any sonata by anyone. I also think the slow movement is miraculous.

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933553 01/14/20 02:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 138
B
Bachian Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 138
Someone on this old tv show has exquisite taste:




Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Bachian] #2933601 01/14/20 08:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,589
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,589
Originally Posted by Bachian
Someone on this old tv show has exquisite taste:


They sure do!

But, y'know, any of us who played like that probably wouldn't get accepted to any of the amateur competitions. ha

(and I don't mean because they'd think it's not really an amateur)

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2933982 01/15/20 12:30 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,679
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,679
Around 2/3 of the sonatas are almost never performed as far as I know. I think the last six plus the little A major account for at least 90% of performances of the sonatas. So one could argue that Schubert's Sonatas are still neglected today although far less than in the past.

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Mark_C] #2933989 01/15/20 01:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 138
B
Bachian Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Bachian
Someone on this old tv show has exquisite taste:


They sure do!

But, y'know, any of us who played like that probably wouldn't get accepted to any of the amateur competitions. ha

(and I don't mean because they'd think it's not really an amateur)


Nevertheless, I bet he’s having a good time jamming with some studio musicians!

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2934162 01/15/20 09:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 123
S
symphonicdance Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 123
All of them are masterworks! However, even if the performer is good enough to keep the tension of the music, it's getting more & more harder nowadays to keep the attention of the 'mind-busy', 'smartphone-addicted' audience to listen to a lengthy piano work.

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: pianoloverus] #2934234 01/15/20 12:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,032
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,032
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Around 2/3 of the sonatas are almost never performed as far as I know. I think the last six plus the little A major account for at least 90% of performances of the sonatas. So one could argue that Schubert's Sonatas are still neglected today although far less than in the past.


Most editions list 11 complete sonatas, and there are a few others patched up from fragments that he left, or just a movement or two. In any case, 7 sonatas are more than 1/3. But I think that all 11 are performed from time to time, as well as some of the fragments. I have even heard the Grand Duo sonata in concert once.


Semipro Tech
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2934295 01/15/20 02:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 397
F
Franz Beebert Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
F
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 397
But what do you guys think more specifically of D 845 and D 850 since they are performed less often than the last 4 sonatas?

Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2934328 01/15/20 04:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,982
D
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,982
D.850, op.53, is a masterpiece, it shares it's op.nr. with Beethoven's Waldstein-sonata, and there are some similarities, however Schubert is totally himself here and lives up to all expectations his friends never dared to have, it might be underplayed not due to it's length (D.958-960 are equally long and what about D.894, an even better sonata?) but perhaps because it is a really difficult piece, musically but also technically, a rare thing in Schubert's output. Beauty abounds here, and joy (and a little 'Traurigkeit)'.


Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: Franz Beebert] #2934350 01/15/20 05:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,055
AaronSF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,055
Originally Posted by Franz Beebert
But what do you guys think more specifically of D 845 and D 850 since they are performed less often than the last 4 sonatas?


I like them both a lot. D850 ends with an echt Schubert country dance tune that captivates me every time, and it is developed so ingeniously and as only Schubert could. I probably slightly prefer D845 with its troubled and troubling first and last movements (with a driven, perpetuum mobile theme), exciting third movement, and the wonderful variations in the second movement.

I found terrific recordings of these two sonatas on YouTube, with Wilhelm Kempff doing the honors:

Kempff plays Schubert, D845
Kempff plays Schubert, D850


August Förster 215
Re: Schubert Sonatas [Re: AaronSF] #2934479 01/16/20 12:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,187
Originally Posted by Franz Beebert
But what do you guys think more specifically of D 845 and D 850 since they are performed less often than the last 4 sonatas?


I particularly like D.845.

Those variations in the second movement... 3hearts 2hearts

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha YDP s52 or Casio CDP 220R
by Love4Music - 02/18/20 09:11 PM
Kawaii K-200 vs Geyer GU-123
by ckm99 - 02/18/20 07:33 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,054
Posts2,927,317
Members96,039
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3