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Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2925617 12/22/19 02:04 AM
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Chris Leslie Offline
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There several things that you could try to isolate the problem. For example, a thin piece of cloth could be temporarily put over the hammer rail on a single note. Same with the back rail. A key could be removed and the whippen lifted by hand. Bridle strap disconnected. Lost motion altered. These are all part of basic fault finding by illimination of possibilities. But also be aware that there may be more than one cause. Also be aware that some noise from various parts is normal.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
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Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2925629 12/22/19 03:55 AM
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Maximillyan Offline
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Originally Posted by lyrabbit
. He believed the noise is because of the compressed hammer rail cloth, as most of the sound came directly from the hammer shank bouncing on the rail cloth.!

Yes! It was no correct work of a hammer rail cloth.
I real hear that noise from falling wippen only.

Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2925632 12/22/19 04:03 AM
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Maximillyan Offline
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Originally Posted by lyrabbit
I feel the noise not only from the shank rest rail, some down part also contribute to it. We will change the rail cloth next time.

I glad that me luck hearing that it's wippen's noise
if your tech will changes back rail cloth that all noise get out forever, I'm think!
good lucks,

Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: Chris Leslie] #2925634 12/22/19 04:06 AM
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Maximillyan Offline
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Originally Posted by Chris Leslie
There several things that you could try to isolate the problem. For example, a thin piece of cloth could be temporarily put over the hammer rail on a single note. Same with the back rail. A key could be removed and the whippen lifted by hand. Bridle strap disconnected. Lost motion altered. These are all part of basic fault finding by illimination of possibilities. But also be aware that there may be more than one cause. Also be aware that some noise from various parts is normal.

thanks, Chris Leslie

Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: Maximillyan] #2925711 12/22/19 09:35 AM
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lyrabbit Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Maximillyan
Originally Posted by lyrabbit
I feel the noise not only from the shank rest rail, some down part also contribute to it. We will change the rail cloth next time.

I glad that me luck hearing that it's wippen's noise
if your tech will changes back rail cloth that all noise get out forever, I'm think!
good lucks,


Thank you Maxi for continuously attending to this post. Thanks Chris for your advice. You are right. I have tried to put a very soft layer of sponge over the hammer rail on few noisy notes, and the same noise made. The noise is from other parts down. I have mentioned the "back rail cloth" to my technician on the day, however he didn't think so. I, myself, have no idea nor the abilities to test other things Chris mentioned above. I dare not to take out the action myself either to do the back rail cloth, as I am afraid it may affect the tune or some other parts. So have to leave it to next year until my piano is due to tune again. But now I am pretty sure the problem is fixable and changing the hammer rail cloth won't help further. So thank you very much for all the great help.


ly
Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2925937 12/23/19 12:14 AM
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AWilley Offline
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Just listened to the recording and I'm not convinced it's the hammer rail. The ka-thunk seems too regular. Could it be the keys? Wippen?
Try these tests:
1. Use one hand to hold a key up in rest position so it doesn't move. Use your other hand to elevate a hippen, pushing the hammer forward until it falls back and checks. You can just use one finger to push a back check (the little shoe with green felt) foward. Now, quickly release the wippen/back check and allow the hammer to fall back into rest postion. Does it make the same noise?
2. In the video you're only playing white keys. Do the black keys make exactly the same noise?
3. What happens if, instead of releasing the key and letting it rise naturally, you grab the front of the key and pull it up quickly to rest postion?


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2932922 01/12/20 02:39 PM
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Goof Offline
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Very good video but you could have fixed the camera on the note immediatly above the break ( on my 1945 Brock this is E flat 3 ). I see the felt on my rest rail is 8mm thick At some time in the past I did stick, just below this felt ( it is 20mm wide and the wood which carries it is 30mm wide), a 10mm X 10 mm
strip of "plastic" foam. This foam is available from hardware shops and is used to seal windows i.e. between the frame and moving part of the window.
So I must also have heard the bounce noise ! The hammers certainly do bounce !
I am mechanically minded - usually motorcars, - but if you look on Utube you will find excellent videos on piano actions and the adjustment the of !

Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2933054 01/12/20 07:47 PM
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Rick_Parks Offline
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All actions knock a little on return of parts-- but this is far beyond acceptable.
Your piano is coming up on 40 years old, so, the noise is most likely a combination of knocking from the key-ends on the back cloth and the hammers returning against the hammer rail cloth...Over the years the keyends compact the backrail cloth, making it harder, as do the hammers repeated return against the hammer rail cloth. As Max said, have your tech replace these cloths.

Might also while you are looking- check the wippen felts, probably compressed from the capstan screws.

For this level of noise- it really requires that all the felts be thoroughly checked over for compression and wear- and replaced with new. Wouldn't bother needling them, or trying to soften, as with their age it is likely just to come back in a short while of play. Just replace them with new felts.


Parks and Sons Piano Service
www.parksandsonspiano.com
Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: Rick_Parks] #2933132 01/13/20 12:27 AM
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Maximillyan Offline
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Originally Posted by Rick_Parks
.Over the years the keyends compact the backrail cloth, making it harder, as do the hammers repeated return against the hammer rail cloth. As Max said, have your tech replace these cloths.

Might also while you are looking- check the wippen felts, probably compressed from the capstan screws.

For this level of noise- it really requires that all the felts be thoroughly checked over for compression and wear- and replaced with new. Wouldn't bother needling them, or trying to soften, as with their age it is likely just to come back in a short while of play. Just replace them with new felts.

I would clarify: it makes sense initially to "cheer up" ( bother needling) Back rail cloth using a regular toothbrush. I had success from that operation. If there is no positive effect here, then you are right Rick Parks, it is necessary to replace for new cloth. It must make your technician only.
regards,

Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2933271 01/13/20 11:01 AM
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Beemer Offline
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Bouncing on an upright rail felt is normal. I'm surprised that no one has suggested just lifting and releasing the hammers by hand. My hammers make a noise as they hit the felt but this cannot be heard if the top is closed.
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Bl├╝thner Model A
Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: Beemer] #2933519 01/13/20 10:45 PM
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Maximillyan Offline
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Originally Posted by Beemer
Bouncing on an upright rail felt is normal. I'm surprised that no one has suggested just lifting and releasing the hammers by hand. My hammers make a noise as they hit the felt but this cannot be heard if the top is closed.
Ian

hi,Ian.
It's normal if a top closed and your music piece is very speed and strong loud

Re: Piano shank bouncing noise on rest rail [Re: lyrabbit] #2934351 01/15/20 05:32 PM
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Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
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